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Forum behavior

Brian Gudauskas
Guys, I’ve been watching with interest and quietly for some time since I was alerted to some recent issues.

Since then I’ve seen many people helping, and being constructive, thank you, you know who you are.

However I’ve seen a small minority posting:

1. Pornography and NSFW posts
2. Admin – baiting
3. Rants, with no purpose other than to incite
4. Ridicule bordering on bullying

Are we going to let a couple of people ruin this for everyone? We put this forum here for us all to discuss the software, to help each other, not for a few people to commandeer for the personal entertainment. There are other places to put NSFW posts and rants, we should be professional on this forum.

We have to protect new users from abuse. We have to enforce the rules for everyone. Criticism is allowed and encouraged (prefer constructive criticism), but flagrant violation of the rules, and bullying of anyone cannot be tolerated. I have been a staunch defender of our open forum for years. Other OEM forums are closed, or non-existent, what does that say about the freedom that is offered here? Let’s respect our privileges or risk them being taken away.

If you want to respond to my plea for professionalism with some remarks about how the software has let you down, has personally screwed you out of house and home, mugged you and your brother, whatever, please don’t. The forum is for discussion, not for logging bugs. If you feel so strongly about the software (which is good), please try to actually do something constructive about the issue through official channels. Here is how.

1. First contact technical support, and report the problem. 800-343-7933. This works, I have followed many customers through the system. YES, I believe like all technical support that it is far from perfect, but at least start here so you can get your call logged and have something to whine to me about. If you don’t like to call, use this form: http://hexagonmetrology.us/contact-us.
2. If you do not receive the timely response you desire, call your sales representative. They will help.
3. If all these fail for a specific issue you have, PM me telling me what happened in technical support, who your sales rep is, and if you entered a contact request. I will follow up with each and make sure the system is working for you and for everyone. Allow me time, I do have a day job, and I'm just one person.
4. If after all that, you still don't like the response you are getting, fill out the customer survey here with your experiences: http://hexagonmetrology.us/contact-us/customer-satisfaction-survey . It is logged and reviewed.

Thanks for your professionalism in advance, please help me make this a better place.
  • I'll do my best answering your questions.

    Question 1: This is one of those questions that I lose no matter which way I answer. If I say I'm influential, then I get flamed when people want stuff, I get PM's for technical support, and then flamed when I can't keep up with them (SMA or not), and torched in general. If I say I'm not influential, then I get flamed for being a loser, and torched for how I can't help. Let's just say I'm influential enough to be heard.
    Question 2: Spread out all over the world (this is necessary to handle the global needs of the software). Many are at our factories, or collect in groups in various software development offices worldwide.
    Question 3: Honestly, I think the communication amongst coders is good. I think they have a great system of code writing, check in and out, and a good problem reporting system. Of course it's not perfect, nothing is.
    Question 4: Bear in mind, it is IMPOSSIBLE to test every combination and permutation of computer (thousands's), video card (hundreds), drivers (tens of thousands), service packs (a few), CMM's (hundreds), controllers (tens to hundreds), sensors (hundreds), firmware (hundreds), and features (hundreds). Did I miss any? Do some quick math on that, and you see it's impossible. However, we do test MANY different ways. I can't detail them all here, but I'll give some examples. We test online, on every product that ships from a factory, and offline. Testing is done by coders (each coding change is tested), dedicated development testers, dedicated AE's that work for Wilcox who test applications, my group (applications engineers not in the software group), factory engineers for every hardware product including sensors, and our customer beta testers. We also have automated testing routines as well that run batteries of tests in constant loops. We have testing protocols that are run on every version of PC-DMIS that are huge. I'm sure I didn't hit on every test or tester, but that's a quick list.

    PC-DMIS runs nearly any device, can do nearly any measurement, and is pretty intuitive. It's not easy being all of those things at once. But as I always say, it's something we strive for, it's what our customers (as a whole, all together) ask us to do.

    -Brian

    Brian.

    How much influence do you have over the coders and their bosses?
    Are coders under the same roof or they spread out all over the world?
    How good is the communication between the coders? Do you know?
    How do you test the software before it is released? Online, offline or both and by whom?

    Just curious.
  • 1. The forum doesn't track version number for the issue.
    2. The forum doesn't keep track of how many people have the same issue.
    3. The forum doesn't categorize the product type (cmm core/blade/gear/vision etc)
    4. The forum isn't a database that is queryable or trackable
    5. I could go on and on.

    That being said when reputable users post an issue on the forum, we do glance through here and try to check those things out. HOWEVER, you can't expect that every post is read, or that it's some kind of "official" feedback for the reasons above. We can't keep track of logged bugs on the forum (the software doesn't have the facility).

    Now, what I want to propose is a way users can directly enter a bug report using a login system, and track the status of their problem report. It would require the specific information we need.

    Again, general cries that everything sucks doesn't help, but specific ideas like a user problem reporting system does. I suggested it, do you guys have any better ideas? I'm all ears.

    It doesn't have to be that hard:

    * Set up a subforum here for bugreports.
    * Have tech support post a template of what kind of information they need for the report.
    * Set up a subscription to the tech support e-mail adress so they are notified by mail when someone posted a bug report.
    * Here is the tricky part, have a tech come in, read the report, file it and reply to it as 'filed' (together with a tracking number of some sorts) or have tech support post a solution if it isn't recognized as a bug.

    This could even be used as a sales pitch: 'Found a bug in our software? Just report it on our user forum! Direct communication with our users!'
  • Not bad vpt, but it doesn't address bullets 2 or 4, and there is no way to sort or prioritize anything. The template would be ignored by many that don't want to put in the required information. The information is too free form, unstructured. Believe me, I've thought of this before myself, I've developed software in the past.

    What I would like is a web portal like I've seen for other software that you can enter a product issue, and get a tracking number and track your report. We have one already internally, I'd like to pretty it up and release it for users.

    Whether I can make that happen is another story. Please keep up with the ideas, I appreciate them.


    It doesn't have to be that hard:

    * Set up a subforum here for bugreports.
    * Have tech support post a template of what kind of information they need for the report.
    * Set up a subscription to the tech support e-mail adress so they are notified by mail when someone posted a bug report.
    * Here is the tricky part, have a tech come in, read the report, file it and reply to it as 'filed' (together with a tracking number of some sorts) or have tech support post a solution if it isn't recognized as a bug.

    This could even be used as a sales pitch: 'Found a bug in our software? Just report it on our user forum! Direct communication with our users!'
  • Well, you could make it so that each post relates to one issue. Anyone that suffers from that same bug could reply in that very thread...

    Each release gets it's own subforum.

    if you don't enter the required information, then you can't really expect to get any help or feedback either... or go the non-web route and call tech support up.
  • People expect answers no matter how badly they form the question. I've been dealing with that for a long time.

    I think you and I agree, we would like to do something, let's see if I can come up with something. If I can't do anything, maybe a forum it will be.

    thanks!

    Well, you could make it so that each post relates to one issue. Anyone that suffers from that same bug could reply in that very thread...

    Each release gets it's own subforum.

    if you don't enter the required information, then you can't really expect to get any help or feedback either... or go the non-web route and call tech support up.
  • I'll do my best answering your questions.

    Question 1: This is one of those questions that I lose no matter which way I answer. If I say I'm influential, then I get flamed when people want stuff, I get PM's for technical support, and then flamed when I can't keep up with them (SMA or not), and torched in general. If I say I'm not influential, then I get flamed for being a loser, and torched for how I can't help. Let's just say I'm influential enough to be heard.
    Question 2: Spread out all over the world (this is necessary to handle the global needs of the software). Many are at our factories, or collect in groups in various software development offices worldwide.
    Question 3: Honestly, I think the communication amongst coders is good. I think they have a great system of code writing, check in and out, and a good problem reporting system. Of course it's not perfect, nothing is.
    Question 4: Bear in mind, it is IMPOSSIBLE to test every combination and permutation of computer (thousands's), video card (hundreds), drivers (tens of thousands), service packs (a few), CMM's (hundreds), controllers (tens to hundreds), sensors (hundreds), firmware (hundreds), and features (hundreds). Did I miss any? Do some quick math on that, and you see it's impossible. However, we do test MANY different ways. I can't detail them all here, but I'll give some examples. We test online, on every product that ships from a factory, and offline. Testing is done by coders (each coding change is tested), dedicated development testers, dedicated AE's that work for Wilcox who test applications, my group (applications engineers not in the software group), factory engineers for every hardware product including sensors, and our customer beta testers. We also have automated testing routines as well that run batteries of tests in constant loops. We have testing protocols that are run on every version of PC-DMIS that are huge. I'm sure I didn't hit on every test or tester, but that's a quick list.

    PC-DMIS runs nearly any device, can do nearly any measurement, and is pretty intuitive. It's not easy being all of those things at once. But as I always say, it's something we strive for, it's what our customers (as a whole, all together) ask us to do.

    -Brian

    Thanks for the insight Brian. I meant no ill intent.

    I understand that it’s impossible to test every combination and don’t expect it to be bug free ever, too big, too complex, the more you push to its full potential the more bugs you would find but I do expect bugs that effect the quality of our products to be fixed....

    Cheers.
  • This whole issue of feedback is hitting me now. With 3 machines running 24/7 I think I've lost track of the trained operators. Seems like they throw new ones at me every day.
    When i come in a statement like "the parts wouldn't run" gets NO response from me.
    The mantra now is IF YOU CAN'T WRITE A FULL DESCRIPTION, THE PROBLEM DOES NO EXIST.
    I have have a form, getting them to use it is the issue now.
    Fortunately management is with me on this. The form will be released as a formal document, requiring training which the trainee acknowledges in writing. When we have time.
  • I'll do my best answering your questions.

    Question 1: This is one of those questions that I lose no matter which way I answer. If I say I'm influential, then I get flamed when people want stuff, I get PM's for technical support, and then flamed when I can't keep up with them (SMA or not), and torched in general. If I say I'm not influential, then I get flamed for being a loser, and torched for how I can't help. Let's just say I'm influential enough to be heard.
    Question 2: Spread out all over the world (this is necessary to handle the global needs of the software). Many are at our factories, or collect in groups in various software development offices worldwide.
    Question 3: Honestly, I think the communication amongst coders is good. I think they have a great system of code writing, check in and out, and a good problem reporting system. Of course it's not perfect, nothing is.
    Question 4: Bear in mind, it is IMPOSSIBLE to test every combination and permutation of computer (thousands's), video card (hundreds), drivers (tens of thousands), service packs (a few), CMM's (hundreds), controllers (tens to hundreds), sensors (hundreds), firmware (hundreds), and features (hundreds). Did I miss any? Do some quick math on that, and you see it's impossible. However, we do test MANY different ways. I can't detail them all here, but I'll give some examples. We test online, on every product that ships from a factory, and offline. Testing is done by coders (each coding change is tested), dedicated development testers, dedicated AE's that work for Wilcox who test applications, my group (applications engineers not in the software group), factory engineers for every hardware product including sensors, and our customer beta testers. We also have automated testing routines as well that run batteries of tests in constant loops. We have testing protocols that are run on every version of PC-DMIS that are huge. I'm sure I didn't hit on every test or tester, but that's a quick list.

    PC-DMIS runs nearly any device, can do nearly any measurement, and is pretty intuitive. It's not easy being all of those things at once. But as I always say, it's something we strive for, it's what our customers (as a whole, all together) ask us to do.
    -Brian

    People expect answers no matter how badly they form the question. I've been dealing with that for a long time.

    I think you and I agree, we would like to do something, let's see if I can come up with something. If I can't do anything, maybe a forum it will be.

    thanks!

    I've followed this thread and think it's pretty good of you Brian to keep up with all the different assertions, opinions and otherwise contained herein.
    But that said? Here's my beef. PC-DMIS does try to be all things to all users. Sad to say, but i, nor my company really gives a crap about someone running a vison system, a Romer or whatever.
    Our company is 100% CMM, (we have OGP's with Measure-X/Fit for the other stuff) and would like to feel that issues that affect us, when sent thru proper channels, will get attention from Tech Support and further up the line. But when you try to be all things to all customers? it seems everyone suffers.
    I read the release notes (from 4.x on thru 2011) and holy cripes! the list of enhancements is one thing, but the list of FIXES? I scroll down the line, and see just how many fixes (to me reads: time devoted by coders) DON'T apply to CMM's ,but to Hexagon's support of OTHER measuring devices. The price of an SMA being what it is, it just seems if someone is listening, well there are just not enough ears to go around.
    I'd like to go on, but that's probably my biggest 'complaint'. Hexagon/Wilcox has tech talent, sure... is it spread too thin? without a doubt.
    my 2¢
  • I've followed this thread and think it's pretty good of you Brian to keep up with all the different assertions, opinions and otherwise contained herein.
    But that said? Here's my beef. PC-DMIS does try to be all things to all users. Sad to say, but i, nor my company really gives a crap about someone running a vison system, a Romer or whatever.
    Our company is 100% CMM, (we have OGP's with Measure-X/Fit for the other stuff) and would like to feel that issues that affect us, when sent thru proper channels, will get attention from Tech Support and further up the line. But when you try to be all things to all customers? it seems everyone suffers.
    I read the release notes (from 4.x on thru 2011) and holy cripes! the list of enhancements is one thing, but the list of FIXES? I scroll down the line, and see just how many fixes (to me reads: time devoted by coders) DON'T apply to CMM's ,but to Hexagon's support of OTHER measuring devices. The price of an SMA being what it is, it just seems if someone is listening, well there are just not enough ears to go around.
    I'd like to go on, but that's probably my biggest 'complaint'. Hexagon/Wilcox has tech talent, sure... is it spread too thin? without a doubt.
    my 2¢


    +1


    JUST MAKE IT WORK FOR MY DEA CMMs

  • Hi Brian,

    I was following this thread in the beginning but just couldn't keep up w/ my work load. I agree w/ Ironhoe's earlier post about keeping your money and not updating your SMA's.

    Well here is my rant. Yesterday I need some simple info from Hexagon about my machine. I had a salesman coming to talk about dryers for my machine. I called Charlotte and I still haven't received a phone call from them! I must say that the Hexagon service just $ucks anymore. I also haven't renewed my SMA because last year I was able to upgrade to v2010 and look what that got me. None of the v2010 is stable. I remember back when "MEAS" was our Charlotte contacts you NEVER went more then 1 hour (IF THAT) w/out someone calling you back and I'm not sure what has happened but some of the same people are still there working for Hexagon. They will not even talk to you w/out an SMA anymore. Hexagon you have dropped the ball, and your Customer Service just $uck anymore. You really need to get you act together.

    Sorry for the tone, but when we need answers about our machines or software we don't have days to get them resolved and this is not my first time this stuff has happened. If it was the first time I wouldn't be writing this. Funny thing is when I renewed my SMA your service for a couple of months were awesome because I had a big transition from the older software to the new versions and had some questions. Now it seems like the same old stuff again. This is why we didn't renew up until last year in the first place.

    Again sorry for the tone and thanks for listening. I HOPE you can get something through to the powers in charge.
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