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Repeatability issue, suspecting "leveling" on a cylinder

Hello all! Following... a tricky one!

CYL_A =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
THEO/<0,0,-21>,<0,0,-1>,7.75,4
ACTL/<0.0055,0.0007,-20.9971>,<-0.0001267,-0.000003,-1>,7.7542,4.01
CONSTR/CYLINDER,BF,PNTB1,PNTB2,PNTB3,PNTB4,PNTB5,PNTB6,PN TB7,PNTB8,PNTB9,PNTB10,PNTB11,PNTB12,PNTB13,PNTB14 ,PNTB15,PNTB16,PNTB17,PNTB18,,
AL_REF_A =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A_PIECE,LIST=YES
ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZMINUS,CYL_A
ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XPLUS,TO,LIN1,ABOUT,ZMINUS
ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,CYL_A
ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,CYL_A
ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN2
ALIGNMENT/END


This is my alignment on a cylinde constracted from points on Z axis at -19 / -21 / -23 as Z coordinates. Keep in mind that I have points at around 60 degs on the left and another 60 degs on the right "forming" incomplete inner part circles since there is material missing north and south side of the part. This is my datum and seems to be consistent as a cylinder both at cylindricity and diameter.

In any case. I have 6 "semi" circles on the outside to form 3 circles ( I am probing left and right again of the part) at Z values -5 / -12.5 / -18

CER7 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<V0,V0,-5>,<V0,V0,1>,12.86,0
ACTL/<-0.0293,-0.0004,-5>,<0,0,1>,12.8863,0
TARG/<V0,V0,-5>,<V0,V0,1>
START ANG=-50,END ANG=230
ANGLE VEC=<V0,0+1,V0>
DIRECTION=CW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
NUMHITS=5,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
SHOW HITS=YES
HIT/BASIC,<5.0669,3.9587,-5>,<0.7880108,0.6156615,0>,<5.0623,3.9473,-4.9989>
HIT/BASIC,<6.0797,2.0934,-5>,<0.9455186,0.3255682,0>,<6.0663,2.092,-4.9997>
HIT/BASIC,<6.43,0,-5>,<1,0,0>,<6.4121,0.001,-5.0028>
HIT/BASIC,<6.0797,-2.0934,-5>,<0.9455186,-0.3255682,0>,<6.0669,-2.0893,-4.9973>
HIT/BASIC,<5.0669,-3.9587,-5>,<0.7880108,-0.6156615,0>,<5.0621,-3.9488,-4.9983>
ENDMEAS/
CER8 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<V0,V0,-12.5>,<V0,V0,1>,12.86,0
ACTL/<-0.02,-0.0008,-12.5>,<0,0,1>,12.8713,0
TARG/<V0,V0,-12.5>,<0,0,1>
START ANG=0-35,END ANG=0+35
ANGLE VEC=<V0,V0,1>
DIRECTION=CCW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
NUMHITS=5,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
SHOW HITS=YES
HIT/BASIC,<5.3927,-3.502,-12.5>,<0.8386706,-0.544639,0>,<5.3837,-3.4963,-12.5014>
HIT/BASIC,<6.1652,-1.8262,-12.5>,<0.9588197,-0.2840153,0>,<6.1528,-1.8214,-12.502>
HIT/BASIC,<6.43,0,-12.5>,<1,0,0>,<6.4156,-0.0032,-12.4938>
HIT/BASIC,<6.1652,1.8262,-12.5>,<0.9588197,0.2840153,0>,<6.1522,1.8219,-12.5004>
HIT/BASIC,<5.3927,3.502,-12.5>,<0.8386706,0.544639,0>,<5.3844,3.4934,-12.4991>
ENDMEAS/
CER9 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<V0,V0,-18>,<V0,V0,1>,12.86,0
ACTL/<-0.0233,-0.0013,-18>,<0,0,1>,12.8753,0
TARG/<V0,V0,-18>,<V0,V0,1>
START ANG=0-50,END ANG=230+0
ANGLE VEC=<V0,0+1,0+0>
DIRECTION=CW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
NUMHITS=5,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
SHOW HITS=YES
HIT/BASIC,<5.0669,3.9587,-18>,<0.7880108,0.6156615,0>,<5.0576,3.951,-18.0043>
HIT/BASIC,<6.0797,2.0934,-18>,<0.9455186,0.3255682,0>,<6.0667,2.0903,-18.0007>
HIT/BASIC,<6.43,0,-18>,<1,0,0>,<6.4135,0.0017,-17.9992>
HIT/BASIC,<6.0797,-2.0934,-18>,<0.9455186,-0.3255682,0>,<6.0661,-2.089,-18.0017>
HIT/BASIC,<5.0669,-3.9587,-18>,<0.7880108,-0.6156615,0>,<5.0593,-3.9529,-17.9999>
ENDMEAS/
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<10,-7,8>
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-10,-7,8>
CER10 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<V0,V0,-5>,<V0,V0,1>,12.86,0
ACTL/<0,0,-5>,<0,0,1>,12.86,0
TARG/<V0,V0,-5>,<0,0,1>
START ANG=0+230,END ANG=0+130
ANGLE VEC=<V0,V0,1>
DIRECTION=CW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
NUMHITS=5,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
SHOW HITS=YES
HIT/BASIC,<-4.3025,-4.7784,-5>,<-0.6691306,-0.7431448,0>,<-4.3025,-4.7784,-5>
HIT/BASIC,<-5.8741,-2.6153,-5>,<-0.9135455,-0.4067366,0>,<-5.8741,-2.6153,-5>
HIT/BASIC,<-6.43,0,-5>,<-1,0,0>,<-6.43,0,-5>
HIT/BASIC,<-5.8741,2.6153,-5>,<-0.9135455,0.4067366,0>,<-5.8741,2.6153,-5>
HIT/BASIC,<-4.3025,4.7784,-5>,<-0.6691306,0.7431448,0>,<-4.3025,4.7784,-5>
ENDMEAS/
CER11 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<V0,V0,-12.5>,<V0,V0,1>,12.86,0
ACTL/<0,0,-12.5>,<0,0,1>,12.8223,0
TARG/<V0,V0,-12.5>,<0,0,1>
START ANG=0+45,END ANG=0+115
ANGLE VEC=<V0,0+1,0>
DIRECTION=CCW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
NUMHITS=5,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
SHOW HITS=YES
HIT/BASIC,<-4.7026,4.3852,-12.5>,<-0.7313537,0.6819984,0>,<-4.8833,4.9793,-12.3707>
HIT/BASIC,<-5.7544,2.8691,-12.5>,<-0.8949344,0.4461978,0>,<-5.9313,3.4675,-12.2888>
HIT/BASIC,<-6.3323,1.1166,-12.5>,<-0.9848078,0.1736482,0>,<-6.5055,1.7185,-12.1912>
HIT/BASIC,<-6.3887,-0.7279,-12.5>,<-0.9935719,-0.1132032,0>,<-6.557,-0.1211,-12.1076>
HIT/BASIC,<-5.9188,-2.5124,-12.5>,<-0.9205049,-0.3907311,0>,<-6.0848,-1.8983,-12.0174>
ENDMEAS/
CER12 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<V0,V0,-18>,<V0,V0,1>,12.86,0
ACTL/<-0.1875,0.3366,-17.649>,<0.0018237,0.0512188,0.9986858>,12.8411,0
TARG/<V0,V0,-18>,<0,0,1>
START ANG=0+220,END ANG=0+140
ANGLE VEC=<V0,V0,1>
DIRECTION=CW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
NUMHITS=5,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO,DISTANCE=10
FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
SHOW HITS=YES
HIT/BASIC,<-5.0669,-3.9587,-18>,<-0.7880108,-0.6156615,0>,<-5.2411,-3.6184,-17.4386>
HIT/BASIC,<-6.0797,-2.0934,-18>,<-0.9455186,-0.3255682,0>,<-6.253,-1.7646,-17.533>
HIT/BASIC,<-6.43,0,-18>,<-1,0,0>,<-6.6082,0.32,-17.6444>
HIT/BASIC,<-6.0797,2.0934,-18>,<-0.9455186,0.3255682,0>,<-6.2634,2.4101,-17.7432>
HIT/BASIC,<-5.0669,3.9587,-18>,<-0.7880108,0.6156615,0>,<-5.2594,4.2687,-17.841>
ENDMEAS/
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-10,7,8>
Ø12_86_5 =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR,YES
THEO/<-0.0298,-0.026,-4.95>,<-0.0004096,-0.0006184,0.9999997>,12.86
ACTL/<-0.0067,-0.0001,-4.9997>,<0,0,1>,12.8529
CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,CER10.HITS[1..CER10.NUMHITS],CER7.HITS[1..CER7.NUMHITS],,
OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
Ø12_86_12_5=FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR,YES
THEO/<-0.0298,-0.026,-4.95>,<-0.0004096,-0.0006184,0.9999997>,12.86
ACTL/<-0.1132,0.2985,-12.3472>,<0,0,1>,13.0627
CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,CER11.HITS[1..CER11.NUMHITS],CER8.HITS[1..CER8.NUMHITS],,
OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
Ø12_86_18 =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR,YES
THEO/<-0.0298,-0.026,-4.95>,<-0.0004096,-0.0006184,0.9999997>,12.86
ACTL/<-0.095,0.1678,-17.8206>,<0,0,1>,13.0068
CONSTR/CIRCLE,BF,2D,CER12.HITS[1..CER12.NUMHITS],CER9.HITS[1..CER9.NUMHITS],,
OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
FILTER/OFF,UPR=0


No problem with their circularity and diameter either. The issue comes with the repeatability of the circles that are the furthest away from the probings of my datum A, meaning circle -5 and -12.5
The -5 one has terrible repeatability in terms of true position with 0.03mm range of measurements. This is not the case with my circle at -18 which is constructed with the same logic and it is basicly the same tool that is creating it in the CNC machine and same probes and everything in CMM.


What am I missing? Where is the mistake? Could it be the level on a cylinder and how the 2d circle is projected? Does this justify the dispersion? I am not moving the part between the measurements and all other locations / positions / features are consistent.

DIM LOC_0_05_12_86_HAUT_A= POSITION OF CIRCLE Ø12_86_5 UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH FIT TO DATUMS=OFF DEV PERPEN CENTERLINE=OFF DISPLAY=DIAMETER
AX NOMINAL +TOL -TOL BONUS MEAS DEV OUTTOL
X V0 -0.0067 -0.0067
Y V0 -0.0001 -0.0001
DF 12.8600 0.0500 0.0500 12.8529 -0.0071 0.0000 #-
TP RFS 0.0500 0.0000 0.0133 0.0133 0.0000 #-
END OF DIMENSION LOC_0_05_12_86_HAUT_A
DIM LOC_0_05_12_86_MILIEU_A= POSITION OF CIRCLE Ø12_86_12_5 UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH FIT TO DATUMS=OFF DEV PERPEN CENTERLINE=OFF DISPLAY=DIAMETER
AX NOMINAL +TOL -TOL BONUS MEAS DEV OUTTOL
X V0 -0.1135 -0.1135
Y V0 0.2984 0.2984
DF 12.8600 0.0500 0.0500 13.0627 0.2027 0.1527 ->
TP RFS 0.0500 0.0000 0.6386 0.6386 0.5886 ->
END OF DIMENSION LOC_0_05_12_86_MILIEU_A
DIM LOC_0_05_12_86_BAS_A= POSITION OF CIRCLE Ø12_86_18 UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH FIT TO DATUMS=OFF DEV PERPEN CENTERLINE=OFF DISPLAY=DIAMETER
AX NOMINAL +TOL -TOL BONUS MEAS DEV OUTTOL
X V0 -0.0951 -0.0951
Y V0 0.1677 0.1677
DF 12.8600 0.0500 0.0500 13.0068 0.1468 0.0968 ->
TP RFS 0.0500 0.0000 0.3856 0.3856 0.3356 ->
END OF DIMENSION LOC_0_05_12_86_BAS_A


Thanks in advance for your answers and time.
Parents
  • a few other observations:
    1: CER10 is reporting actual values at nominal. there's something wrong with the results here. There is no possible way it's perfect.
    CER10 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<V0,V0,-5>,<V0,V0,1>,12.86,0
    ACTL/<0,0,-5>,<0,0,1>,12.86,0


    2: Your interrupted cylinder is exhibiting cylindricity of (12.8663-12.8223 = 0.064mm), so your 5 points of "not small arc method" hit data is ABSOLUTELY contributing to your positional variation.
    CER7 -5z =___12.8863___CER10 -5z =___12.860 NOMINAL --RED FLAG--
    CER8 -12.5z = 12.871____CER11 -12.5z = 12.8223
    CER9 -18z =__12.8753___CER12 -18.5z = 12.8411

    3. You are judging your 13mm long cylinder upon a datum that's constructed with a 4mm long axis length. this is a GD&T gaff. Any time you have a longer axis, you should be using that longer axis as the datum.

    I strongly advise you figure out what's going on with CER10 and i would also again suggest you implement the small arc method for each of your respective CER7-12 features if you want to improve on your measured precision.
  • also, all your start and end angles for CER7-12 look inconsistent.
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