I thought I'd revive this discussion. I've searched the forums and read the other threads on using the axis of a cylinder as Datum A. I don't think they answered the question I have here.
With reference to the print below, if I use the "Level Z+ to the cylinder" guideline, then in relation to the print, Z+ is pointing to the right (presuming vector directions). Then, it seems that the Datum B plane is PARALLEL to the [piece of paper] Datum A "plane", and therefore can't constrain rotation of the Z+ plane.
Now, the engineer insists that I'm wrong because the datum callout is to the AXIS of the cylinder, which is indeed perpendicular to Datum B.
My question is, how do I achieve this in PC-DMIS? If I construct a line in the Z+ workplane from A to C, and then use that to constrain the rotation, am I not effectively replacing Datum B with Datum C? Then Datum B simply becomes the place to put the Z origin.
How would you gurus approach this?
Another issue - the Datum C hole asks for A(M) - if Datum A is merely the axis line of the cylinder, can we even say it's a feature "of size"?
Also, would you probe Datum C as a cylinder, or as a circle with sample hits?
Datum "A" (shaft) controls 4 DOF, 2 rotational and 2 axial
Datum "B" (surface?) controls 1 axial DOF
Datum "C" (hole) controls 1 rotational DOF
6 DOF, all done.
I see no other way those datums can control all 6 DOF.
CAN/MAY/MUST rule applies.
"A" can control 2 rotational and 2 axial DOF, and it MAY since they are not previously controlled, so it MUST control those 4 DOF
"B" can control 2 rotational and 1 axial DOF, but it MAY NOT control the rotational since they are already controlled, it MAY control 1 axial DOF, so it MUST control 1 axial DOF
"C" can control 2 rotational and 2 axisl DOF, but it MAY NOT control 1 of those rotational and 2 of those axial since they are already controlled, it may control 1 rotational DOF so it MUST control 1 rotational DOF.
This is for a callout of A-B-C. It all shuffles around if the callout isn't A-B-C
Of course, this is all based on proper use of GD&T.
New alignment that RECALLS STARTUP....
Level to -A-
Rotate -A- to -C- in the vector direction the features make ABOUT whatever you leveled to
-A- is X&Y origin. -B- is Z origin.
Regarding -C-...you can measure it as either a circle or cylinder. Looks like you'd be good with a circle in this case & sure why not? Use sample hits, it can't hurt...
I use circles if I have a lot of tolerances and don't need to use that geometry for any fancy GD&T like concentricity or runout.
Be careful! A2 is rotating twice. A2 is also an alignment that is fully defined with 6 DOF yet is recalling an alignment that isn't STARTUP (unnecessary). Finally, A2 's XYZ origins are out of order. When I train people, I always instruct them to LEVEL, ROTATE, XYZ IN THAT ORDER EVERY TIME so you're alignments are always "good"/you don't forget anything.
Oh duhh. I was really tired and distracted last week. I know not to do that, so I'm not sure what I was thinking.
Having said that, if we're essentially ignoring Datum B and constraining the rotation using a line from A to C, aren't we proving that Datum B is invalid?
-B- isn't ignored. And it is valid! It just
geometrically can't be used to constrain rotation because it is along the same vector as the feature you're leveling through.
-A- has a Z vector, so you need to rotate to something that has an X or Y vector. Rotating from cir-cir gives you the Y vector.
Level Z, rotate to X or Y about the Z, XYZ origin. Bingbangboom.
CAN/MAY/MUST
-A- CAN and MAY/therefore MUST be leveled to the Z.
-B- has a Z vector so it CAN NOT be rotated about the Z for this alignment.
I realize I sound repetitive but I am trying to break this down for your benefit. Hopefully its helping!