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Moral Dilemma

Is is ok to kill a whale to save two pandas?

Answer then add your moral dilemma and so on and so on.
  • The moral dilemma we all face, all the time.

    You just measured a "hot" part that everyone has been hounding you to measure. They want to ship it today. Everything is in spec except one feature. It is out by 0.0001in (~3um for you metric folk). You try to re-measure it, but it is what it is. It's been a long day and you want to go home. You know from experience that it has been out of spec even more than that in the past and the customer accepted it, but the work instructions are to document the nonconformity to initiate a day long process that will ultimately end in the part being shipped.

    Do you "tweak" the number and go home Slight smile, or do you stick around a little longer and document the nonconformity and quarantine the part Disappointed?


    For 90% of my parts (given the set of circumstances you described), my company would want me to ship it.

    In this situation I would:
    -Print the PC DMIS Report & hand write on it that I accept at high limit after verifying with a mic/plate layout
    -On my company's inspection paperwork, I would enter the high limit value (over-riding what the CMM got)
    -PC DMIS report stays with "Run Folder" for traceability


    That said, my company does make Critical Safety Components for aircraft engines. Some parts have diameter & runout tolerances at/around 0.0001" and we have to reject these products for being even slightly OOT (customer will check them just like we do). Fun times Slight smileSlight smile
  • The moral dilemma we all face, all the time.

    You just measured a "hot" part that everyone has been hounding you to measure. They want to ship it today. Everything is in spec except one feature. It is out by 0.0001in (~3um for you metric folk). You try to re-measure it, but it is what it is. It's been a long day and you want to go home. You know from experience that it has been out of spec even more than that in the past and the customer accepted it, but the work instructions are to document the nonconformity to initiate a day long process that will ultimately end in the part being shipped.

    Do you "tweak" the number and go home Slight smile, or do you stick around a little longer and document the nonconformity and quarantine the part Disappointed?


    Depending on how critical that feature is. In my world, critical features are controlled by SPC, which are monitored.

    Not Critical - PASS
    Critical - FAIL
  • change the touch speed for that feature, higher or lower, until it comes in Smiley
  • The moral dilemma we all face, all the time.

    You just measured a "hot" part that everyone has been hounding you to measure. They want to ship it today. Everything is in spec except one feature. It is out by 0.0001in (~3um for you metric folk). You try to re-measure it, but it is what it is. It's been a long day and you want to go home. You know from experience that it has been out of spec even more than that in the past and the customer accepted it, but the work instructions are to document the nonconformity to initiate a day long process that will ultimately end in the part being shipped.

    Do you "tweak" the number and go home Slight smile, or do you stick around a little longer and document the nonconformity and quarantine the part Disappointed?


    I would Leroy Jenkins that $#it.


  • For 90% of my parts (given the set of circumstances you described), my company would want me to ship it.

    In this situation I would:
    -Print the PC DMIS Report & hand write on it that I accept at high limit after verifying with a mic/plate layout
    -On my company's inspection paperwork, I would enter the high limit value (over-riding what the CMM got)
    -PC DMIS report stays with "Run Folder" for traceability


    That said, my company does make Critical Safety Components for aircraft engines. Some parts have diameter & runout tolerances at/around 0.0001" and we have to reject these products for being even slightly OOT (customer will check them just like we do). Fun times Slight smileSlight smile


    Sounds like your company has a decent process for that situation.

    That is a crazy runout tolerance. That can't be fun when the customer is checking that too.


  • Depending on how critical that feature is. In my world, critical features are controlled by SPC, which are monitored.

    Not Critical - PASS
    Critical - FAIL


    Yeah, SPC does make that a little more difficult. Heck, you don't even have to be out of tolerance for a measurement to be an issue. Cpk can be rough.

    Where I'm at now I mostly deal with short run parts and prototypes of aerospace structural components. No SPC here.


  • Yeah, SPC does make that a little more difficult. Heck, you don't even have to be out of tolerance for a measurement to be an issue. Cpk can be rough.

    Where I'm at now I mostly deal with short run parts and prototypes of aerospace structural components. No SPC here.


    Yes it does. A whole different animal.
  • The moral dilemma we all face, all the time.

    You just measured a "hot" part that everyone has been hounding you to measure. They want to ship it today. Everything is in spec except one feature. It is out by 0.0001in (~3um for you metric folk). You try to re-measure it, but it is what it is. It's been a long day and you want to go home. You know from experience that it has been out of spec even more than that in the past and the customer accepted it, but the work instructions are to document the nonconformity to initiate a day long process that will ultimately end in the part being shipped.

    Do you "tweak" the number and go home Slight smile, or do you stick around a little longer and document the nonconformity and quarantine the part Disappointed?


    What is the tolerance range?
    --I mean 0.0001" OOS on a 0.010" tolerance to me can easily round up/down 0.0005"
    --But if it's ±0.0002 or less, then nope no way, unless you can affirm it passes some other way.
  • The moral dilemma we all face, all the time.

    You just measured a "hot" part that everyone has been hounding you to measure. They want to ship it today. Everything is in spec except one feature. It is out by 0.0001in (~3um for you metric folk). You try to re-measure it, but it is what it is. It's been a long day and you want to go home. You know from experience that it has been out of spec even more than that in the past and the customer accepted it, but the work instructions are to document the nonconformity to initiate a day long process that will ultimately end in the part being shipped.

    Do you "tweak" the number and go home Slight smile, or do you stick around a little longer and document the nonconformity and quarantine the part Disappointed?


    In my shop, we often use tighter internal tolerances than what the prints call out. It gives us a buffer if there is any variation or tool wear. If it is outside the internal tolerances but within customer print we will ship. If it is outside customer print, upper management gets the report and the decision is all theirs. I just tell em if it's good or bad.


  • In my shop, we often use tighter internal tolerances than what the prints call out. It gives us a buffer if there is any variation or tool wear. If it is outside the internal tolerances but within customer print we will ship. If it is outside customer print, upper management gets the report and the decision is all theirs. I just tell em if it's good or bad.


    I have worked at places that proposed having tighter internal tolerances, but haven't seen it implemented. It always seemed like a safe approach to me. Though, I guess in a sense, that is also the purpose of going the SPC route. It's nice that even if your shop has the goal of meeting those tighter tolerances, they still give you the latitude to approve the part if it measures outside the internal tolerances but within the customer print tolerances.

    I'm the same as you. I just report what it its. If a part measures out of spec and I have done all I can to confirm the measurements, I reject it and let the review process handle it from there.