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True Position in 3 axis???

Ok, I have read the post regarding this so called argument that my boss and I got into today. He told me that you cannot measure true position in 3 axis, as I told him he was wrong. I know it depends on the way the FCF calls it out, but I tried to explain to him that it is possible to measure TP in 3 axis.
I have seen the formulas, so I know it's possible. I just wish I could get one of you gurus to reply back explaining that it is possible and why. I see the picture but he does not. I do not like to get into pissing matches with upper management, but I have learned a h**ll of alot from you guys, and I know this is possible. So if one of you fine gentleman can back me up on this, I would very much appreciate it. Thank you very much.
Now I am going to get a cold beer.Smiley
Parents
  • You are correct the callout is missing the diameter symbol, with the diameter symbol it would be an axis, the callout is bad without it. I'll edit it to make it legal. You are really reaching on the rest man lol. Your original position was what that you need three basic dimensions. That is what I am demonstrating, that you do not. Also the shape of the feature does in fact dictate the shape of the tolerance zone. you can only TP a FOS which a point is not so that would be illegal.


    Craig, it is not a stretch. We are just missing each other by words. I said BASIC Dimension but I meant BASIC AXIS LOCATION whether Dimensioned OR implied. You will find I do that on a regular basis. Tongue slippage man.

    The callout you posted as AXIAL is OK too. It could be a timing hole in a cam or other item. It could be that the radial component is all that we care about. It might be on a spinning item and need to be picked up by a sensor. Granted TP in that case is no different than a regular dimension but size can come into play on a round feature and we STILL only want axial. Just saying it IS possible and I have seen it enough and understood the rationale for it in those cases enough to believe it is OK. Function dictates the tolerance zone. Generally I believe you are right and that it is normal for a cylinder to have a cylindrical tolerance zone and a sphere to have a spherical tolerance zone. There are exceptions and you say they are illegal? Always illegal?

    Take for example a pierce point for a hole on a piece of sheet metal. Spherical TP for the pierce point has been used a lot by GM to determine fit to mating parts. Why can they NOT do that? Take for example a corner point. Why can I not use Sperical TP for that to control it's location in a sperical zone? Also, say I have a hole for an optical reflector that gets sensed when installed. I care about the Axial displacement to a tighter degree than I do about the radial rotation which can be within 3 or 4 degrees? Do I HAVE to change the hole to a slot to get the GD&T tolerancing that the function dictates?

    Also, please explain the criteria for reporting diametric TP when there are THREE basics controlling it's location. I am not asking because I know the answer and want to crack on you. I am asking because I know what I do and want to see what others do.
Reply
  • You are correct the callout is missing the diameter symbol, with the diameter symbol it would be an axis, the callout is bad without it. I'll edit it to make it legal. You are really reaching on the rest man lol. Your original position was what that you need three basic dimensions. That is what I am demonstrating, that you do not. Also the shape of the feature does in fact dictate the shape of the tolerance zone. you can only TP a FOS which a point is not so that would be illegal.


    Craig, it is not a stretch. We are just missing each other by words. I said BASIC Dimension but I meant BASIC AXIS LOCATION whether Dimensioned OR implied. You will find I do that on a regular basis. Tongue slippage man.

    The callout you posted as AXIAL is OK too. It could be a timing hole in a cam or other item. It could be that the radial component is all that we care about. It might be on a spinning item and need to be picked up by a sensor. Granted TP in that case is no different than a regular dimension but size can come into play on a round feature and we STILL only want axial. Just saying it IS possible and I have seen it enough and understood the rationale for it in those cases enough to believe it is OK. Function dictates the tolerance zone. Generally I believe you are right and that it is normal for a cylinder to have a cylindrical tolerance zone and a sphere to have a spherical tolerance zone. There are exceptions and you say they are illegal? Always illegal?

    Take for example a pierce point for a hole on a piece of sheet metal. Spherical TP for the pierce point has been used a lot by GM to determine fit to mating parts. Why can they NOT do that? Take for example a corner point. Why can I not use Sperical TP for that to control it's location in a sperical zone? Also, say I have a hole for an optical reflector that gets sensed when installed. I care about the Axial displacement to a tighter degree than I do about the radial rotation which can be within 3 or 4 degrees? Do I HAVE to change the hole to a slot to get the GD&T tolerancing that the function dictates?

    Also, please explain the criteria for reporting diametric TP when there are THREE basics controlling it's location. I am not asking because I know the answer and want to crack on you. I am asking because I know what I do and want to see what others do.
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