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[2021.1] GeoTol messes with my nominals, why?

Running 2021.1, first encounter with GeoTols. Opened a program created in 2019 (I think) and upon running the program, the reported nominals are not the same as the feature nominals - why?



Loaded CAD to verify nominals were correct, still no go. Recreating the FCF doesn't change anything either.

Program:


START =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:USE_PART_SETUP,LIST=YES
ALIGNMENT/END
MODE/MANUAL
CHECK/3,1
FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS,ID,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;MEAS,NOM,TOL,DEV,OUTTOL, ,
LOADPROBE/3MM
TIP/TIP1, SHANKIJK=0, 0, 1, ANGLE=0
COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,
Mät ytterdiameter på vänster rörände

OBS! Börja med tre stödpunkter!
Ø22 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>,22,0
ACTL/<627.234,644.389,262.38>,<0.2742149,0.1856828,0.94 3572>,21.968,0
TARG/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
START ANG=0,END ANG=360
ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
DIRECTION=CCW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PKT Ø22 =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,NO
THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
ACTL/<627.234,644.389,262.38>,<0.2742149,0.1856828,0.94 3572>
CONSTR/POINT,CAST,Ø22
DATDEF/B,FEATURES=Ø22,,
A1 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:START,LIST=YES
ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,PKT Ø22
ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,PKT Ø22
ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PKT Ø22
ALIGNMENT/END
COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,
Mät spår i konsol

OBS! Börja med tre stödpunkter!
SPÅR =FEAT/CONTACT/ROUND SLOT/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN
THEO/<295.6,-104.3,-147.2>,<-0.0605674,0.5000144,0.8638965>,<0.997564,0.0003141 ,0.069757>,9,11.8
ACTL/<-245.688,-241.238,-30.76>,<0.7142378,0.0169459,0.6996979>,<0.3198843, 0.8812814,-0.3478752>,9.169,13.982
TARG/<295.6,-104.3,-147.2>,<-0.0605674,0.5000144,0.8638965>,<0.997564,0.0003141 ,0.069757>
MEAS ANGLE=160
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
PKT Q =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,YES
THEO/<295.6,-104.3,-147.2>,<-0.0605674,0.5000144,0.8638965>
ACTL/<-245.688,-241.238,-30.76>,<0.7142378,0.0169459,0.6996979>
CONSTR/POINT,CAST,SPÅR
A2 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A1,LIST=YES
ALIGNMENT/BF2D,ZPLUS,LEAST_SQR,CREATE WEIGHTS=NO,ROTANDTRANS,USE SCALING=NO,0,0,0,26.844
ITERATEANDREPIERCECAD=NO
Deviation Threshold=5,Pause Execution=NO
SHOWALLINPUTS=NO,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
ALIGNMENT/END
WORKPLANE/YPLUS
A3 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A2,LIST=YES
ALIGNMENT/BF2D,YPLUS,LEAST_SQR,CREATE WEIGHTS=NO,ROTANDTRANS,USE SCALING=NO,0,0,0,21.172
ITERATEANDREPIERCECAD=NO
Deviation Threshold=5,Pause Execution=NO
SHOWALLINPUTS=NO,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
ALIGNMENT/END
WORKPLANE/ZPLUS
COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,
Mät ytterdiameter på höger rörände

OBS! Börja med tre stödpunkter!
HÖ RÖRÄNDE =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<253,-142.5,-171.7>,<-0.2686794,-0.9630455,-0.0188342>,18,0
ACTL/<-285.276,-50.326,-175.445>,<-0.4032534,0.9128111,-0.0645188>,18.067,0
TARG/<253,-142.5,-171.7>,<-0.2686794,-0.9630455,-0.0188342>
START ANG=0,END ANG=360
ANGLE VEC=<-0.0699277,0,0.9975521>
DIRECTION=CCW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,
Mät ytterdiameter på Ø16

OBS! Börja med tre stödpunkter!
Ø16 =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
THEO/<142.3,56.6,-226.6>,<0.4444073,0.8166771,-0.3681585>,16,0
ACTL/<-74.943,-141.655,-220.667>,<0.1179681,-0.9436953,-0.3090674>,16.024,0
TARG/<142.3,56.6,-226.6>,<0.4444073,0.8166771,-0.3681585>
START ANG=0,END ANG=360
ANGLE VEC=<-0.6379514,0,-0.7700766>
DIRECTION=CCW
SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=NO
WORKPLANE/ZPLUS
A4 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A3,LIST=YES
ALIGNMENT/BF3D,LEAST_SQR,CREATE WEIGHTS=NO,ROTANDTRANS,USE SCALING=NO,-1.755,3.229,-0.217,-141.985,175.886,-1.101
ITERATEANDREPIERCECAD=NO
Deviation Threshold=5,Pause Execution=NO
SHOWALLINPUTS=NO,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
ALIGNMENT/END
REF A =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE,NO
THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
ACTL/<0,0,0>,<0,0,1>
CONSTR/PLANE,ALIGN,ZPLUS
DATDEF/A,FEATURES=REF A,,
REF C =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE,NO
THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,1,0>
ACTL/<0,0,0>,<0,1,0>
CONSTR/PLANE,ALIGN,YPLUS
DATDEF/C,FEATURES=REF C,,
DIM DIM3= LOCATION OF CIRCLE Ø22 UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=NONE HALF ANGLE=NO
AX MEAS NOMINAL +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
X 0.610 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.610 0.610 ->
Y 3.631 0.000 0.000 0.000 3.631 3.631 ->
Z 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 ->
END OF DIMENSION DIM3
DIM DIM2= LOCATION OF POINT PKT Q UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=NONE HALF ANGLE=NO
AX MEAS NOMINAL +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
X 294.187 295.600 0.000 0.000 -1.413 -1.413 <-
Y -104.300 -104.300 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 ->
Z -147.200 -147.200 0.000 0.000 0.000 0.000 ->
END OF DIMENSION DIM2
COMMENT/REPT,
Mått 295.6 (±2)
DIM DIM4= LOCATION OF SLOT SPÅR UNITS=MM ,$
GRAPH=OFF TEXT=OFF MULT=10.00 OUTPUT=BOTH HALF ANGLE=NO
AX MEAS NOMINAL +TOL -TOL DEV OUTTOL
X 294.187 295.600 2.000 -2.000 -1.413 0.000 #-
END OF DIMENSION DIM4
COMMENT/REPT,
Lägeriktighet inom Ø2(M) rel. A/C för Ø22
FCFDIM1 =GEOMETRIC_TOLERANCE/STANDARD=ISO 1101,SHOWEXPANDED=NO,
SIZE/NOMINAL=22,TOLERANCE SPECIFICATION MODE=NOMINAL_WITH_DEVIATIONS,
UPPER TOLERANCE=0.15,LOWER TOLERANCE=-0.15,
SEGMENT_1,POSITION,DIAMETER,2,MMC,A,C,<dat>,
ADD
FEATURES/Ø22,,
COMMENT/REPT,
Lägeriktighet inom Ø4(M) rel. A/C för Ø16
FCFDIM2 =GEOMETRIC_TOLERANCE/STANDARD=ISO 1101,SHOWEXPANDED=NO,
SIZE/NOMINAL=16,TOLERANCE SPECIFICATION MODE=NOMINAL_WITH_DEVIATIONS,
UPPER TOLERANCE=0.1,LOWER TOLERANCE=-0.1,
SEGMENT_1,POSITION,DIAMETER,4,MMC,A,C,<dat>,
ADD
FEATURES/Ø16,,
COMMENT/REPT,
Lägeriktighet inom Ø4(M) rel. A/C för Ø18
FCFDIM3 =GEOMETRIC_TOLERANCE/STANDARD=ISO 1101,SHOWEXPANDED=NO,
SIZE/NOMINAL=18,TOLERANCE SPECIFICATION MODE=NOMINAL_WITH_DEVIATIONS,
UPPER TOLERANCE=0.1,LOWER TOLERANCE=-0.1,
SEGMENT_1,POSITION,DIAMETER,4,MMC,A,C,<dat>,
ADD
FEATURES/HÖ RÖRÄNDE,,


​​​​​Ping neil.challinor
Parents
  • hello, I think i am experiencing a similar issue. opening a routine created in 2020r1, in 2021.1sp1, migration report states that nominals are changed. This is not acceptable and here is why. Customer supplies cad files, cad files have rounding errors, so that the nominals on the Cad do not match the print. Customer expects print nominals on their Form3 reports of AS9102. Our cmm data is often changed from cad nominal due to the rounding error (keyed in), and this data is scrubbed directly into form 3, and since the nominals changed, there is now a break in the chain between the character ID (bubble), and the nominal from the print requirement. It needs to be up to the user whether to have nominals changed to the cad nominals instead of the keyed in value. please advise.
  • As I said in my post at the top of this page, we are currently making changes to prevent nominals from changing on the report and these changes are currently targeted for 2021.2. However, these changes only concern the way in which we project measured hits and are designed to prevent the nominals from changes with each execution in situations where the DRF is different to the active alignment (such as compound angled holes). It sounds like you are describing what happens during migration and this will not change. The geometric tolerance command obtains nominal values from the THEO fields of the features being referenced. This was the same for XactMeasure and although it allowed users to edit those nominal values, it should not have done. There should only ever be one set of nominal (THEO) values for features. The option to carry nominals back to the features when editing dimensions helps but will only work in cases where there are no partially constrained alignments between the feature and the dimension and where the DRF is fully constrained if it is an XactMeasure or Geometric Tolerance command. Generally, Legacy dimensions are able to carry nominals back if they are edited in the dimension because legacy works relative to the active alignment. XactMeasure and the Geometric tolerance commands have many cases where the nominals can not be carried back - callouts to no datums for example - which is why we removed that capability.

    To summarise, you should ensure the THEO values in your features are correct. If the values on the drawing have been rounded and take precedence over the none-rounded values contained in the CAD model then you should edit the feature THEO's to reflect this.
Reply
  • As I said in my post at the top of this page, we are currently making changes to prevent nominals from changing on the report and these changes are currently targeted for 2021.2. However, these changes only concern the way in which we project measured hits and are designed to prevent the nominals from changes with each execution in situations where the DRF is different to the active alignment (such as compound angled holes). It sounds like you are describing what happens during migration and this will not change. The geometric tolerance command obtains nominal values from the THEO fields of the features being referenced. This was the same for XactMeasure and although it allowed users to edit those nominal values, it should not have done. There should only ever be one set of nominal (THEO) values for features. The option to carry nominals back to the features when editing dimensions helps but will only work in cases where there are no partially constrained alignments between the feature and the dimension and where the DRF is fully constrained if it is an XactMeasure or Geometric Tolerance command. Generally, Legacy dimensions are able to carry nominals back if they are edited in the dimension because legacy works relative to the active alignment. XactMeasure and the Geometric tolerance commands have many cases where the nominals can not be carried back - callouts to no datums for example - which is why we removed that capability.

    To summarise, you should ensure the THEO values in your features are correct. If the values on the drawing have been rounded and take precedence over the none-rounded values contained in the CAD model then you should edit the feature THEO's to reflect this.
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