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Weird Concentric circles TP result

Hello all,

I am using a TIGO TP20 setup (PCDMIS 2017 R2) and I am measuring a small cylindrical part (somehow resembling a very short tube). The outer Diameter being 9mm and inner 6 mm. I have it placed vertically on my fixture and trying to true position control the inner circle as to the outer. The problem is that the face I am having the part on Z+ has no rotational datum and as such I only level on the top plane and probing from Z+ the 2 circles. There is no room (part being 4 mm short) for cylinders.

In any case, this is a simple TP callout of 2 circles. The issue is that while without moving the part on the fixture I am getting repeatable results at a few microns in 2 axis resulting in a TP of less than 0.01mm, when I turn the part 180 degs I am getting 0.03 shift in Y axis. Not only that, but rotating the part continuously by 180 Degs, I am getting consistent repeatable results over and over with the same offset...

The circle even being small I am probing as least squares, 360degs full circles and 23 and 17 hits accordingly in order to have a better approach.

Nevertheless, the distance between the 2 circles should always be the same no matter the orientation / rotation which is left unconstrained (actually was constrained externally with a plane of the fixture). The call out is only requesting TP from Datum A (outer dia).

Maybe it is the leveling plane curling (flatness was 0.015-0.020 mm) due to the fixture grip (not really stressing it much tbh), but still... why have consistency between placements?

For me, this is the first time seeing this happening and I am thinking it has to do with the rotation that's left "unconstrained" and this should not be happening imo. Any ideas maybe?
  • I'd suggest to test the measurement without the clamping, maybe use super glue or similar, just to see if you still have issues.
  • Well, I don't see repeatability issues while placing and removing the part on the fixture while keeping the same orientation. This tells me that there is nothing wrong with the way it is fixed. Also both torque key and manual fixing result in form error of the OD around 5 microns (27 points I think on the latest program modif), negligible bending imo.
  • I know changing to Y+ can be faster but this also take care of 90 degs steps! If you think there is a better way to do it, please...I am all ears :P It will for sure not be the first time I have learned something new from your posts indeed.
  • Have you turned on graphic view to see the shape of the out of roundness and whether it follows the 180 physical rotation of part. my guess would be that it is a combination of form error of part, clamping distortion and tri-lobe error from the tp20 phasing in and out as you rotate the part.

    What length of styli are you using as the longer they are the bigger the tp20 error, all tp20 units are certified using a 10mm styli.
  • i second , but recommend double sided sticky tape onto that bottom plane
  • Have you turned on graphic view to see the shape of the out of roundness and whether it follows the 180 physical rotation of part. my guess would be that it is a combination of form error of part, clamping distortion and tri-lobe error from the tp20 phasing in and out as you rotate the part.

    What length of styli are you using as the longer they are the bigger the tp20 error, all tp20 units are certified using a 10mm styli.


    I did view the distortion but I did not really compare it. It is definitely something I will be doing thanks! The distortion I did investigate seemed not really relevant to the griping spots though that is what I remember! The clamping I think is not really a factor since I am barely touching it. This is not the first time we use this kind of fixture on similar parts and even if it was designed for smaller OD indeed, it can still perform the simple task of keeping it in place it.

    Anti-lobe error, this is the first time I am hearing this. Is there a way to verify or at least minimize it? I am using a 1x20mm and confirmed the results with 2x20mm. No other options available on the changer apart from a 0.5x20mm which I don;t think is a good idea going with Slight smile
  • Ok guys, I am convinced I will be trying with no fixture just playdoh it on the table :P
  • Sorry, I didn't saw it's a Tigo... Hard to turn without rotation head...Disappointed
    You can see easily the effect of tri-lobe :Calibrate A0B0 and A0B90, and measure the part at the same position with bot tips.
    If the graphic is the same, then it's the part, if the graphic turns with the probe, it's the tri-lobe...
  • You can see easily the effect of tri-lobe :Calibrate A0B0 and A0B90, and measure the part at the same position with bot tips.
    If the graphic is the same, then it's the part, if the graphic turns with the probe, it's the tri-lobe...


    I am not sure what you mean by graphics turn :S
    From what I understood, I put the part Vertically and perform the same measurement with the probe in horizontal position and see from there.
  • Sorry, I didn't saw it's a Tigo... Hard to turn without rotation head...Disappointed
    You can see easily the effect of tri-lobe :Calibrate A0B0 and A0B90, and measure the part at the same position with bot tips.
    If the graphic is the same, then it's the part, if the graphic turns with the probe, it's the tri-lobe...


    Sorry I just really read your answer. It is a tigo but with a tp20 rotating head. I suppose special requested and delivered for us.