hexagon logo

GD&T Question

See attached image. Datums F and G are in line cylinders. The feature control frame says to check total runout of each F and G to an F-G alignment. This call out has always puzzled me. Doesn't total runout require that you check a feature to one other datum? For example, I could check F to G, or vice versa. How would you check the total runout of these datums to themselves?

Geometric Tolerancing in PCDMIS 2022 is relatively new to me, so I could be doing it wrong, but I've noticed that if I try to dimension a feature that is one of the datum's in the control frame, I get an error telling me I can't do it.

This feature is on a large part, so rotating it is not an option. Both the F and G cylinders are being scanned as circles at various depths. Cylinders are then constructed for both F and G.

So my questions are:

• Is this call out correct?
• If it is correct, how can I construct it to report correctly?
• If it's not correct, what's the best method to check this?

Attached Files
Parents
  • If I level F as the "primary" and then check G runout to F, if F is crooked, when it projects over to where G is, the centerline of the actual F will be no where near the centerline of G.
    Same going the other way. Even though the X and Y at the mouth of both F and G holes might be identical, the axis being crooked, projected way over to the other hole will give a really awful runout.

    If I am putting something in F and using your part as a connector that then holds G, that's what I'd want. Rod in-line to F, your part connecting in-line to G, and the rod in G being straight out the other end.



    If I have a solid part with a clevis sticking up, and pins in the ears of that clevis... Your part sits in the clevis and the pins insert from the two sides.
    Then, What I care about, is that when I put the two pins in, neither side is so crooked that it binds.

    So, cylinder F-G thought of as a single thing, and check the runout of each half to that compound feature.

    If either side runs out (I personally don't like runout, but that's me) too much, it will bind, wear excessively or restrict motion and not function.



    Neil's solution is built in to PcDmis and more elegant.
    Contructing a cylinder from the points measured in F and G individually, then checking is bulkier.
    They should net the same answer.

    I tend to do the second way, constructing, because I'm old, PcDmis didn't used to have the thing to do that build in, and I don't remember the 1 time every two years I have to program something for this, that's 100% on me. I'd like to remember to do it as Neil said.
Reply
  • If I level F as the "primary" and then check G runout to F, if F is crooked, when it projects over to where G is, the centerline of the actual F will be no where near the centerline of G.
    Same going the other way. Even though the X and Y at the mouth of both F and G holes might be identical, the axis being crooked, projected way over to the other hole will give a really awful runout.

    If I am putting something in F and using your part as a connector that then holds G, that's what I'd want. Rod in-line to F, your part connecting in-line to G, and the rod in G being straight out the other end.



    If I have a solid part with a clevis sticking up, and pins in the ears of that clevis... Your part sits in the clevis and the pins insert from the two sides.
    Then, What I care about, is that when I put the two pins in, neither side is so crooked that it binds.

    So, cylinder F-G thought of as a single thing, and check the runout of each half to that compound feature.

    If either side runs out (I personally don't like runout, but that's me) too much, it will bind, wear excessively or restrict motion and not function.



    Neil's solution is built in to PcDmis and more elegant.
    Contructing a cylinder from the points measured in F and G individually, then checking is bulkier.
    They should net the same answer.

    I tend to do the second way, constructing, because I'm old, PcDmis didn't used to have the thing to do that build in, and I don't remember the 1 time every two years I have to program something for this, that's 100% on me. I'd like to remember to do it as Neil said.
Children
No Data