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Trying to measure a 3mm hole with a 1mm probe

Jack Kara

I am trying to measure the position of a 3mm diameter hole using a 1mm probe tip. I tried using the auto circle measure tool and it positioned the probe incorrectly. It didn't move over the hole, but was off by about 2mm. Why would this happen? The hole is dead on position and the part matches the model to within .001". I measured the alignment with a different probe on three square faces of the part. Would this impact where the machine thought the hole is? Is there something wrong with the hardware? Both probes were calibrated before measurement with no errors. Any help would be appreciated. 

Also, I still need to measure the hole, but taking hits moves the probe too far back. how do I change it so that the probe can measure the 3mm hole?

Parents Reply Children
  • 0 in reply to Neil Challinor

    Both probes were calibrated before I started measuring. I just calibrated them again for good measure. I also manually took some hits with the 1mm probe. It is now off by -1.127" in x, .025" in z and .924" in y. It looks like the probe thinks that the part is somewhere completely different than where it is. I think there must be something that I have to do with alignments when changing probe tips. I use a probe rack and the machine does it automatically. I think that there is something very basic that I am missing that is so basic that nobody here would even think to respond with the answer. Here is the code for my program so far. 

    PART NAME : measurement test 1
REV NUMBER :
SER NUMBER :
STATS COUNT : 1

STARTUP =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:USE_PART_SETUP,LIST=YES
ALIGNMENT/END
MODE/MANUAL
FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS, ,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,TOL,MEAS,DEV,OUTTOL, ,
LOADPROBE/5MM50L PROBE
TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0, 0, 1, ANGLE=0
MAN_ALIGN =GROUP/SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
ENDGROUP/ID=MAN_ALIGN
DCC_ALIGN =GROUP/SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
ENDGROUP/ID=DCC_ALIGN
SCN1 =FEAT/SCAN,LINEAROPEN,NUMBER OF HITS=397,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
MEAS/SCAN
BASICSCAN/LINE,NUMBER OF HITS=397,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
*A BUNCH OF HITS*
ENDSCAN
ENDMEAS/
MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<1.8409,-1.1827,1.4011>
LOADPROBE/1MM PROBE WITH EXTENSIONS
TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0.0001, 0, 1, ANGLE=0.0959
MODE/MANUAL
PLN4 =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
THEO/<1.063,-3.6554,-0.1457>,<-1,0,0>
ACTL/<-0.0641,-2.8459,-0.1078>,<-0.9999983,-0.0001729,0.0018597>
MEAS/PLANE,3
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.063,-2.2793,-0.175>,<-1,0,0>,<-0.0644,-1.4773,-0.1108>,USE THEO=YES
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.063,-3.5447,-0.0538>,<-1,0,0>,<-0.064,-2.8064,-0.0567>,USE THEO=YES
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.063,-5.1423,-0.2083>,<-1,0,0>,<-0.064,-4.2542,-0.1558>,USE THEO=YES
ENDMEAS/
PLN5 =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
THEO/<1.7903,-2.646,-0.0098>,<0,0,1>
ACTL/<0.5752,-1.938,0.0156>,<0.0000849,-0.0000348,1>
MEAS/PLANE,3
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.4314,-4.7782,-0.0098>,<0,0,1>,<0.2498,-3.7312,0.0155>,USE THEO=YES
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.5476,-1.8087,-0.0098>,<0,0,1>,<0.2462,-1.5491,0.0156>,USE THEO=YES
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<2.3918,-1.3511,-0.0098>,<0,0,1>,<1.2295,-0.5336,0.0156>,USE THEO=YES
ENDMEAS/
PLN6 =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
THEO/<2.8752,-0.9843,-0.1258>,<0,1,0>
ACTL/<1.6836,-0.0602,-0.0896>,<-0.0005733,0.9999913,-0.0041359>
MEAS/PLANE,3
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.9252,-0.9843,-0.0888>,<0,1,0>,<0.7465,-0.0607,-0.0615>,USE THEO=YES
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<2.9035,-0.9843,-0.1953>,<0,1,0>,<1.608,-0.0605,-0.146>,USE THEO=YES
HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<3.7969,-0.9843,-0.0934>,<0,1,0>,<2.6961,-0.0595,-0.0615>,USE THEO=YES
ENDMEAS/

  • 0 in reply to Jack Kara

    Is it possible for you to edit this post and cut your program text, and paste it into an Insert > Code block so it's more readable?

  • 0 in reply to WilliamL

    I tried, but do you know which language I was supposed to select to actually format the text? PC DMIS is not an option for type of code.

  • 0 in reply to Neil Challinor

    It looks like an alignment that is done using one probe is not carried over to other probes. I assume that this is normal and expected behavior and I should be creating new alignments for each probe that I load? Will I also need to create new alignments when I change the angle of the probe head but keep the same probe?

  • 0 in reply to Jack Kara

    The Default is fine, type of "text" is what you'd want for posting in code for PC-DMIS as there is no inherent intellisense for highlighting code words. At least as far as I am aware. It's just so you can scroll up and down the code block like it was a text document and keeps the post a lot more clean to parse through. Also, if you could, expand your groups that contain your alignments in your code and paste it back in if you can so we can verify your alignments

  • 0 in reply to WilliamL

    Do you know if there is a way to keep an alignment after a probe is changed. I am new to PC DMIS and I assumed that 1 alignment was all that was needed for the machine to know where the part is. 

  • 0 in reply to Jack Kara

    Can you expand the groups to display your full alignments? It would help a ton here for why you are having this issue. Do you know how to? Your alignment doesn't change when you change probes, unless you explicitly recall or create a different alignment, it will not change. 1 Alignment can be enough, but it depends how you are creating the alignments too. Change these "SHOWALLPARAMS=YES"

    MAN_ALIGN =GROUP/SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
ENDGROUP/ID=MAN_ALIGN
DCC_ALIGN =GROUP/SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
ENDGROUP/ID=DCC_ALIGN

  • 0 in reply to WilliamL 

    PART NAME  : measurement test 1
REV NUMBER : 
SER NUMBER : 
STATS COUNT : 1
 
STARTUP    =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:USE_PART_SETUP,LIST=YES
            ALIGNMENT/END
            MODE/MANUAL
            FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS, ,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,TOL,MEAS,DEV,OUTTOL, , 
            LOADPROBE/5MM50L PROBE
            TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0, 0, 1, ANGLE=0
MAN_ALIGN  =GROUP/SHOWALLPARAMS=YES
PLN1         =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
              THEO/<-0.264,-0.6643,0.0098>,<0,0,1>
              ACTL/<-2.3567,26.9924,3.4203>,<0.0020519,0.0000851,0.9999979>
              MEAS/PLANE,3
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0.7303,0.8065,0.0098>,<0,0,1>,<-1.4124,28.5213,3.4182>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<-0.7096,0.0239,0.0098>,<0,0,1>,<-2.856,27.3876,3.4213>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<-0.8126,-2.8232,0.0098>,<0,0,1>,<-2.801,25.0684,3.4214>,USE THEO=YES
              ENDMEAS/
PLN2         =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
              THEO/<-1.063,-1.6071,-0.5737>,<-1,0,0>
              ACTL/<-3.0821,26.1669,2.978>,<-0.9999984,0.0017382,-0.0004459>
              MEAS/PLANE,3
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<-1.063,-3.0215,-0.2131>,<-1,0,0>,<-3.0842,25.068,3.2564>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<-1.063,-1.8048,-0.9106>,<-1,0,0>,<-3.0825,25.8682,2.7408>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<-1.063,0.0051,-0.5974>,<-1,0,0>,<-3.0797,27.5649,2.9366>,USE THEO=YES
              ENDMEAS/
PLN3         =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
              THEO/<0.7591,0.9843,-0.5264>,<0,1,0>
              ACTL/<-1.3106,28.83,2.9231>,<0.0011888,0.9999991,-0.0006585>
              MEAS/PLANE,3
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0.0092,0.9843,-0.7046>,<0,1,0>,<-1.9555,28.8307,2.8244>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0.678,0.9843,-0.1643>,<0,1,0>,<-1.3407,28.8301,3.1094>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.5903,0.9843,-0.7104>,<0,1,0>,<-0.6353,28.8291,2.8354>,USE THEO=YES
              ENDMEAS/
A1           =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
                ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN1
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN1
                ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XMINUS,TO,PLN2,ABOUT,ZPLUS
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,PLN2
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,PLN3
              ALIGNMENT/END
            ENDGROUP/ID=MAN_ALIGN
DCC_ALIGN  =GROUP/SHOWALLPARAMS=YES
              COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,OVC=NO,
              Changing to DCC mode! Do not continue unless avoidance moves have been added.
              MODE/DCC
PLN1_DCC     =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
              THEO/<0.799,-1.6485,0>,<0,0,1>
              ACTL/<0.7993,-1.6487,0.0019>,<-0.0021734,-0.000078,0.9999976>
              MEAS/PLANE,3
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.7933,-0.1778,0>,<0,0,1>,<1.7935,-0.178,0.0042>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0.3534,-0.9604,0>,<0,0,1>,<0.3537,-0.9606,0.001>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0.2504,-3.8074,0>,<0,0,1>,<0.2507,-3.8076,0.0005>,USE THEO=YES
              ENDMEAS/
A1_DCC1      =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
                ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN1_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN1_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XMINUS,TO,PLN2,ABOUT,ZPLUS
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,PLN2
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,PLN3
              ALIGNMENT/END
PLN2_DCC     =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
              THEO/<0,-2.5913,-0.5835>,<-1,0,0>
              ACTL/<-0.0001,-2.5916,-0.5837>,<-1,-0.0000402,0.0000826>
              MEAS/PLANE,3
                MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-0.4242,-3.8848,0.5335>
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0,-4.0057,-0.2229>,<-1,0,0>,<0,-4.006,-0.2231>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0,-2.7891,-0.9205>,<-1,0,0>,<-0.0001,-2.7893,-0.9206>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<0,-0.9791,-0.6072>,<-1,0,0>,<-0.0001,-0.9794,-0.6073>,USE THEO=YES
              ENDMEAS/
A1_DCC2      =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
                ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN1_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN1_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XMINUS,TO,PLN2_DCC,ABOUT,ZPLUS
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,PLN2_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,PLN3
              ALIGNMENT/END
PLN3_DCC     =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
              THEO/<1.8221,0,-0.5363>,<0,1,0>
              ACTL/<1.8221,0.0005,-0.5362>,<-0.0003891,0.9999996,-0.0008226>
              MEAS/PLANE,3
                MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<-0.0643,0.1455,-0.6188>
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.0722,0,-0.7144>,<0,1,0>,<1.0722,0.0001,-0.7143>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<1.741,0,-0.1742>,<0,1,0>,<1.7409,0.0008,-0.1741>,USE THEO=YES
                HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<2.6533,0,-0.7202>,<0,1,0>,<2.6533,0.0007,-0.7201>,USE THEO=YES
              ENDMEAS/
A1_DCC3      =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
                ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN1_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,PLN1_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XMINUS,TO,PLN2_DCC,ABOUT,ZPLUS
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,PLN2_DCC
                ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,PLN3_DCC
              ALIGNMENT/END
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<2.6534,0.1982,0.3835>
              MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<2.6564,-1.5538,0.3835>
            ENDGROUP/ID=DCC_ALIGN
SCN1       =FEAT/SCAN,LINEAROPEN,NUMBER OF HITS=397,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
            MEAS/SCAN
              BASICSCAN/LINE,NUMBER OF HITS=397,SHOW HITS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
              *BUNCH OF HITS*
              ENDSCAN
            ENDMEAS/
            MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<1.8409,-1.1827,1.4011>
            LOADPROBE/1MM PROBE WITH EXTENSIONS
            TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0.0001, 0, 1, ANGLE=0.0959

  • 0 in reply to WilliamL

    When I switch probes, the center point of the 1mm probe is offset by about .064" in both the x and y. Below are the results of each calibration:

    
Probe file=5MM50L PROBE    Date=11/14/2024    Time=11:36:28 AM

Check Collision Disabled

S3574          CENT X   2.2904 Y  12.2055 Z -17.9187 D 0.9833
T1A0B0         THEO X   0.0000 Y   0.0000 Z  12.0354 D 0.1969
T1A0B0         FAST X  -0.0686 Y  -0.0574 Z  12.0468 D 0.1969 PrbRdv-0.0005
T1A0B0         MEAS X  -0.0686 Y  -0.0573 Z  12.0469 D 0.1969 PrbRdv 0.0000 StdDev 0.0000



    
Probe file=1MM PROBE WITH EXTENSIONS    Date=11/14/2024    Time=9:16:50 AM

Check Collision Disabled

S3574          CENT X   2.2263 Y  12.1445 Z -17.9031 D 0.9833
T1A0B0         THEO X   0.0000 Y   0.0000 Z  11.8386 D 0.0394
T1A0B0         FAST X   0.0000 Y   0.0000 Z  11.8386 D 0.0394 PrbRdv-0.0005
T1A0B0         MEAS X   0.0000 Y   0.0000 Z  11.8386 D 0.0394 PrbRdv-0.0000 StdDev 0.0000

    What could cause this problem to happen? I am convinced I am missing something here. 

  • 0 in reply to Jack Kara

    Check the probe1, it is bended ? look for nominals for S3574 , differ in X Y in 0.0641, 0.061, .

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