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Alignment/Measuring

Hello all,

I'm back with another rapid-fire set of questions:

I'm having a lot of troubles getting my alignments down. So, basically where i work, we make exhaust tubes. I am almost always supplied a cad, with a predetermined origin and rotation orientation for my coordinate system. Because of this, I was told in the PC-Dmis 101 class, I would have to almost exclusively use best-fit alignments. Now, to do my alignment, I typically take four separate hits (using my mouse on my CAD) on each end of the tube in a kind-of plus pattern. Then i start a new alignment, click best fit, select all 8 of my hits, click compute, then ok, ok. So that's my initial alignment. Then I select auto-trigger mode and place 4 hits on either end of the tube (The cut part of the tube, by the way; what will eventually be measured as a plane soon), and create a second best fit alignment using the 8 new auto trigger hits.

After this is done, i shift-left click all my features starting at one plane, then all the cylinders down the part, then the last plane. I construct a pierce point between the first plane and first cylinder, and then the second plane and the last cylinder.

Here's where i get into trouble:

By blueprints typically call out distances between these two points across the X, Y, and Z axis, all separately. X normally goes down the length of the part, Y for the width, and Z for height. My X measurement is 'almost' always in spec, and then my Y and Z measurement is be off, sometimes significantly. This leads me to believe that there is a rotational issue present, likely due to how i built my first alignment. On occasion, my x measurement will be near perfect, then Y and Z be off my 8-10mm. Yet when i check the part to the check fixture the issue isn't present, which only further confirms that i am doing something blatantly wrong. In the PC-Dmis class, we only used the training block, so it was incredibly easy (relatively) to visualize my alignments, and make sure i had all degrees of travel and rotation locked.

Please, someone help me understand what I'm doing wrong, and what i can do to fix this issue. I have been doing this for around 6 months, (did the PC-Dmis 101 course this last December) so I don't know all the lingo or shorthand names for some of these actions i see some people talk about. Please explain how i should be doing it, as step-by-step as you can as though you were instructing an infant, because I'm definitely missing something here.

With my last post after the guy helping me realized I'm an incompetent newb at this, and he broke down what i needed to do step-by-step, it almost completely solved my issue that i was having.

Thank you.
Parents
  • PART NAME : 5038
    REV NUMBER :
    SER NUMBER :
    STATS COUNT : 1
    
    STARTUP =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:USE_PART_SETUP,LIST=YES
    ALIGNMENT/END
    MODE/MANUAL
    FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS, ,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,TOL,MEAS,DEV,OUTTOL, ,
    LOADPROBE/6MM_RUBY
    TIP/TIP1, SHANKIJK=0, 0, 1, ANGLE=0
    PLN1 =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUTLINE,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<1724.043,141.583,-61.318>,<-0.9960847,-0.0864727,0.0183755>
    ACTL/<616.557,-444.45,248.896>,<0.4182193,-0.9077998,0.0314969>
    TARG/<1724.043,141.583,-61.318>,<-0.9960847,-0.0864727,0.0183755>
    ANGLE VEC=<0.0184445,0,0.9998299>,RADIAL
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=4,NUMRINGS=4
    SPACER=0
    SHOW HITS=NO
    CYL1 =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,POLAR,OUT,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<1729.271,4.373,-96.583>,<-0.9960847,-0.0864727,0.0183755>,75,-27.864
    ACTL/<751.305,324.505,249.944>,<-0.425294,0.9041276,-0.0409669>,75.606,-27.864
    TARG/<1729.271,4.373,-96.583>,<-0.9960847,-0.0864727,0.0183755>
    START ANG=270.091,END ANG=629.266
    ANGLE VEC=<0.0184445,0,0.9998299>
    DIRECTION=CCW
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=3,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
    FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
    SHOW HITS=NO
    CYL2 =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,POLAR,OUT,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<1761.398,4.386,-97.189>,<-0.9923073,-0.1210956,0.0257328>,75,-117.14
    ACTL/<665.629,328.687,248.469>,<-0.4341698,0.9006164,-0.0196628>,73.727,-117.14
    TARG/<1761.398,4.386,-97.189>,<-0.9923073,-0.1210956,0.0257328>
    START ANG=270.18,END ANG=629.311
    ANGLE VEC=<0.0259236,0,0.9996639>
    DIRECTION=CCW
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=3,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
    FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
    SHOW HITS=NO
    CYL3 =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,POLAR,OUT,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<1958.424,3.783,-102.623>,<-0.8281301,0.559827,0.0281846>,75,-62.075
    ACTL/<582.377,340.843,238.631>,<0.2800562,0.9587897,-0.0478623>,79.611,-62.075
    TARG/<1958.424,3.783,-102.623>,<-0.8281301,0.559827,0.0281846>
    START ANG=0,END ANG=360
    ANGLE VEC=<0.0340144,0,0.9994213>
    DIRECTION=CCW
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=3,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
    FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
    SHOW HITS=NO
    CYL4 =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,POLAR,OUT,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<2093.958,1.348,-115.769>,<-0.9740015,0.22654,0.0008951>,55.65,-450.943
    ACTL/<576.136,16.34,238.086>,<-0.0993737,0.9950132,0.0085836>,50.742,-450.943
    TARG/<2093.958,1.348,-115.769>,<-0.9740015,0.22654,0.0008951>
    START ANG=183.143,END ANG=356.74
    ANGLE VEC=<0.000919,0,0.9999996>
    DIRECTION=CCW
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=3,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
    FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
    SHOW HITS=NO
    CYL5 =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,POLAR,OUT,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<2101.746,2.151,-115.745>,<-0.9740015,0.22654,0.0008951>,55.65,-450.943
    ACTL/<542.732,16.35,236.314>,<-0.0999235,0.9949657,0.0076561>,57.165,-450.943
    TARG/<2101.746,2.151,-115.745>,<-0.9740015,0.22654,0.0008951>
    START ANG=3.143,END ANG=176.74
    ANGLE VEC=<0.000919,0,0.9999996>
    DIRECTION=CCW
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=3,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
    FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
    SHOW HITS=NO
    CYL6 =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR,NO
    THEO/<2316.431,12.992,-115.959>,<-0.9740015,0.22654,0.0008951>,72.541,450.943
    ACTL/<535.393,156.646,231.6>,<-0.099315,0.9949913,0.0113543>,87.418,383.51
    CONSTR/CYLINDER,BF,CYL5,CYL4,,
    CYL7 =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,POLAR,OUT,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<2798.817,356.884,-105.951>,<0.8810761,-0.4729703,-0.0019936>,75,-95
    ACTL/<818.825,49.523,251.27>,<-0.1534091,-0.9880522,-0.01478>,74.195,-95
    TARG/<2798.817,356.884,-105.951>,<0.8810761,-0.4729703,-0.0019936>
    START ANG=0,END ANG=360
    ANGLE VEC=<-0.0022627,0,-0.9999974>
    DIRECTION=CCW
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=3,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
    SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
    SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
    FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
    SHOW HITS=NO
    PLN2 =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUTLINE,LEAST_SQR
    THEO/<2799.365,-143.576,-70.655>,<0.8810761,-0.4729703,-0.0019936>
    ACTL/<541.221,662.56,246.782>,<0.1574218,0.9873725,0.01 77201>
    TARG/<2799.365,-143.576,-70.655>,<0.8810761,-0.4729703,-0.0019936>
    ANGLE VEC=<-0.0022627,0,-0.9999974>,RADIAL
    SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
    SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
    NUMHITS=4,NUMRINGS=4
    SPACER=0
    SHOW HITS=NO
    MID1 =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,NO
    THEO/<1724.237,131.862,-96.583>,<0.0864873,-0.996253,0>
    ACTL/<615.708,-444.791,250.332>,<-0.425294,0.9041276,-0.0409669>
    CONSTR/POINT,PIERCE,PLN1,CYL1
    MID2 =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,NO
    THEO/<1754.119,134.456,-97.134>,<-0.9960847,-0.0864727,0.0183755>
    ACTL/<616.639,-446.098,250.525>,<-0.425294,0.9041276,-0.0409669>
    CONSTR/POINT,INT,CYL1,CYL2
    MID3 =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,NO
    THEO/<1919.604,152.573,-101.447>,<-0.5598776,-0.8285474,0.0068011>
    ACTL/<528.951,-263.796,244.469>,<-0.4341698,0.9006164,-0.0196628>
    CONSTR/POINT,INT,CYL2,CYL3
    MID4 =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,NO
    THEO/<2029.602,80.697,-105.005>,<0.2259472,0.9711514,0.0762424>
    ACTL/<565.314,-137.076,232.091>,<0.2800562,0.9587897,-0.0478623>
    CONSTR/POINT,INT,CYL3,CYL6
    MID5 =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,NO
    THEO/<2608.982,-54.551,-105.54>,<-0.3125398,-0.9498953,-0.0042294>
    ACTL/<505.526,454.823,241.879>,<-0.099315,0.9949913,0.0113543>
    CONSTR/POINT,INT,CYL6,CYL7
    MID6 =FEAT/POINT,CARTESIAN,NO
    THEO/<2794.678,-152.158,-105.951>,<-0.4729483,-0.8810902,0>
    ACTL/<537.769,663.019,251.87>,<-0.1534091,-0.9880522,-0.01478>
    CONSTR/POINT,PIERCE,CYL7,PLN2
    A1 =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
    ALIGNMENT/BF3D,LEAST_SQR,CREATE WEIGHTS=NO,ROTANDTRANS,USE SCALING=NO,1287.668,-2033.923,367.615,108.801,-168.161,-3.821
    ITERATEANDREPIERCECAD=YES,TOLERANCE=20,MAX ITERATIONS=100
    Deviation Threshold=0.00999998,Pause Execution=NO
    SHOWALLINPUTS=YES,SHOWALLPARAMS=NO
    ID=MID1
    ID=MID3
    ID=MID4
    ID=MID5
    ID=MID6
    ID=
    ALIGNMENT/END
    
  • dim dim1= location of point mid1  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     1724.308      4.000      4.000   1721.829     -2.479      0.000 -#-------
    y      131.868      4.000      4.000    130.626     -1.243      0.000 ---#-----
    z      -96.585      4.000      4.000    -94.164      2.421      0.000 -------#-
    end of dimension dim1
    dim dim2= location of point mid2  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     1754.119      4.000      4.000   1720.290    -33.829     29.829 <--------
    y      134.456      4.000      4.000    130.154     -4.302      0.302 <--------
    z      -97.134      4.000      4.000    -94.015      3.119      0.000 --------#
    end of dimension dim2
    dim dim3= location of point mid3  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     1917.000      4.000      4.000   1921.169      4.169      0.169 -------->
    y      154.333      4.000      4.000    154.652      0.318      0.000 ----#----
    z     -101.358      4.000      4.000    -96.730      4.629      0.629 -------->
    end of dimension dim3
    dim dim4= location of point mid4  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     2028.531      4.000      4.000   2029.511      0.980      0.000 -----#---
    y       80.946      4.000      4.000     80.335     -0.611      0.000 ---#-----
    z     -105.004      4.000      4.000   -113.250     -8.246      4.246 <--------
    end of dimension dim4
    dim dim5= location of point mid5  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     2617.572      4.000      4.000   2608.994     -8.577      4.577 <--------
    y      -57.086      4.000      4.000    -54.506      2.580      0.000 -------#-
    z     -105.550      4.000      4.000   -107.665     -2.115      0.000 --#------
    end of dimension dim5
    dim dim6= location of point mid6  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     2794.664      4.000      4.000   2795.599      0.935      0.000 -----#---
    y     -152.151      4.000      4.000   -152.683     -0.532      0.000 ---#-----
    z     -105.951      4.000      4.000   -102.717      3.233      0.000 --------#
    end of dimension dim6
    dim angl1= 2d angle from cylinder cyl1 to cylinder cyl2 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a        1.996      1.000      1.000      0.464     -1.532      0.532 <--------
    dim angl2= 2d angle from cylinder cyl3 to cylinder cyl2 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a       41.017      1.000      1.000     41.843      0.826      0.000 --------#
    dim angl3= 2d angle from cylinder cyl3 to cylinder cyl6 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a       20.966      1.000      1.000     21.732      0.766      0.000 -------#-
    dim angl4= 2d angle to cylinder cyl6 from cylinder cyl7 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a       15.134      1.000      1.000     14.506     -0.628      0.000 -#-------
    dim length1= 3d distance from point mid1 to point mid2,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m       29.928      1.000      1.000      1.616    -28.312     27.312 <--------
    dim length2= 3d distance from point mid2 to point mid3,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      164.144      1.000      1.000    202.386     38.242     37.242 -------->
    dim length3= 3d distance from point mid3 to point mid4,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      133.559      1.000      1.000    132.415     -1.145      0.145 <--------
    dim length4= 3d distance from point mid4 to point mid5,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      604.998      1.000      1.000    594.991    -10.007      9.007 <--------
    dim length5= 3d distance from point mid5 to point mid6,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      200.996      1.000      1.000    210.914      9.919      8.919 -------->
    
Reply
  • dim dim1= location of point mid1  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     1724.308      4.000      4.000   1721.829     -2.479      0.000 -#-------
    y      131.868      4.000      4.000    130.626     -1.243      0.000 ---#-----
    z      -96.585      4.000      4.000    -94.164      2.421      0.000 -------#-
    end of dimension dim1
    dim dim2= location of point mid2  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     1754.119      4.000      4.000   1720.290    -33.829     29.829 <--------
    y      134.456      4.000      4.000    130.154     -4.302      0.302 <--------
    z      -97.134      4.000      4.000    -94.015      3.119      0.000 --------#
    end of dimension dim2
    dim dim3= location of point mid3  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     1917.000      4.000      4.000   1921.169      4.169      0.169 -------->
    y      154.333      4.000      4.000    154.652      0.318      0.000 ----#----
    z     -101.358      4.000      4.000    -96.730      4.629      0.629 -------->
    end of dimension dim3
    dim dim4= location of point mid4  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     2028.531      4.000      4.000   2029.511      0.980      0.000 -----#---
    y       80.946      4.000      4.000     80.335     -0.611      0.000 ---#-----
    z     -105.004      4.000      4.000   -113.250     -8.246      4.246 <--------
    end of dimension dim4
    dim dim5= location of point mid5  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     2617.572      4.000      4.000   2608.994     -8.577      4.577 <--------
    y      -57.086      4.000      4.000    -54.506      2.580      0.000 -------#-
    z     -105.550      4.000      4.000   -107.665     -2.115      0.000 --#------
    end of dimension dim5
    dim dim6= location of point mid6  units=mm ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both  half angle=no
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    x     2794.664      4.000      4.000   2795.599      0.935      0.000 -----#---
    y     -152.151      4.000      4.000   -152.683     -0.532      0.000 ---#-----
    z     -105.951      4.000      4.000   -102.717      3.233      0.000 --------#
    end of dimension dim6
    dim angl1= 2d angle from cylinder cyl1 to cylinder cyl2 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a        1.996      1.000      1.000      0.464     -1.532      0.532 <--------
    dim angl2= 2d angle from cylinder cyl3 to cylinder cyl2 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a       41.017      1.000      1.000     41.843      0.826      0.000 --------#
    dim angl3= 2d angle from cylinder cyl3 to cylinder cyl6 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a       20.966      1.000      1.000     21.732      0.766      0.000 -------#-
    dim angl4= 2d angle to cylinder cyl6 from cylinder cyl7 ,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    a       15.134      1.000      1.000     14.506     -0.628      0.000 -#-------
    dim length1= 3d distance from point mid1 to point mid2,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m       29.928      1.000      1.000      1.616    -28.312     27.312 <--------
    dim length2= 3d distance from point mid2 to point mid3,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      164.144      1.000      1.000    202.386     38.242     37.242 -------->
    dim length3= 3d distance from point mid3 to point mid4,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      133.559      1.000      1.000    132.415     -1.145      0.145 <--------
    dim length4= 3d distance from point mid4 to point mid5,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      604.998      1.000      1.000    594.991    -10.007      9.007 <--------
    dim length5= 3d distance from point mid5 to point mid6,shortest=off,no_radius  units=mm,$
    graph=off  text=off  mult=10.00  output=both
    ax    nominal       +tol       -tol       meas        dev     outtol
    m      200.996      1.000      1.000    210.914      9.919      8.919 -------->
    
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