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PC-DMIS vs. NX for programming offline

TheBradish
Hey, all! I have been reading this forum a lot this year, and this is my first post. Thanks for all the help so far!!!

So far my shop has no offline programming capability, and I am trying to make a presentation to the boss to show a need for it and explore our options. At this point I am very comfortable programming with PC-DMIS (using v4.2) and would be very happy to upgrade to the latest version with an offline seat.

Our engineering department, however, uses Siemens NX, and they are pushing to use their software for creating CMM programs. From what I understand, the two big selling points are:

  1. a button which automatically generates an inspection program checking all selected features - which they claim will be 80% to 90% complete
  2. the ability to utilize Product Manufacturing Information (PMI) - i.e. datum definitions, tolerances, etc. - which are built into the model. This is supposed to save time with entering the information manually, but also offers revision control: when the model is revised, the inspection program is revised automatically.


My question for the forum: Has anybody had experience using NX software to write a program, or used programs written by NX? Is it as fast/easy/wonderful as they say it is? Do later versions of PC-DMIS support the use of PMI? Any input would be immensely helpful.
  • This might not fall well, considering what product forum we're in, but I'd bet you fare better with a pure DMIS solution. I think Siemens NX is using DMIS (not a flavor or derivative of it). If I'm wrong, please feel free to correct me.
  • Hey, all! I have been reading this forum a lot this year, and this is my first post. Thanks for all the help so far!!!
    So far my shop has no offline programming capability, and I am trying to make a presentation to the boss to show a need for it and explore our options. At this point I am very comfortable programming with PC-DMIS (using v4.2) and would be very happy to upgrade to the latest version with an offline seat.
    Our engineering department, however, uses Siemens NX, and they are pushing to use their software for creating CMM programs. From what I understand, the two big selling points are:
    1 .a button which automatically generates an inspection program checking all selected features - which they claim will be 80% to 90% complete
    2.the ability to utilize Product Manufacturing Information (PMI) - i.e. datum definitions, tolerances, etc. - which are built into the model. This is supposed to save time with entering the information manually, but also offers revision control: when the model is revised, the inspection program is revised automatically.
    My question for the forum: Has anybody had experience using NX software to write a program, or used programs written by NX? Is it as fast/easy/wonderful as they say it is? Do later versions of PC-DMIS support the use of PMI? Any input would be immensely helpful.
    Is there a software out there that can do this!!! A button that programs the whole part? Just one button? Does that same button dimension and spit out a report too? Sounds promissing! Make my job a whole lot easier.

    +1 vpt.se You might get failry bias opignion on this forum as this is for PC-DMIS softawre. There is another site out there that deals with all cmm software's. a quick google serch you should be able to find it

    edit: in the newer versions pcdmis has a function that is called path optimazation. You can select your features in any order and it reprograms it to optimize the program run . I tried using it in version 2011 when I went for training but he could not get it to work. And I never heard of alot of other people using it.
  • Hey, all! I have been reading this forum a lot this year, and this is my first post. Thanks for all the help so far!!!

    So far my shop has no offline programming capability, and I am trying to make a presentation to the boss to show a need for it and explore our options. At this point I am very comfortable programming with PC-DMIS (using v4.2) and would be very happy to upgrade to the latest version with an offline seat.

    Our engineering department, however, uses Siemens NX, and they are pushing to use their software for creating CMM programs. From what I understand, the two big selling points are:
    1. a button which automatically generates an inspection program checking all selected features - which they claim will be 80% to 90% complete
    2. the ability to utilize Product Manufacturing Information (PMI) - i.e. datum definitions, tolerances, etc. - which are built into the model. This is supposed to save time with entering the information manually, but also offers revision control: when the model is revised, the inspection program is revised automatically.


    My question for the forum: Has anybody had experience using NX software to write a program, or used programs written by NX? Is it as fast/easy/wonderful as they say it is? Do later versions of PC-DMIS support the use of PMI? Any input would be immensely helpful.

    Simple solution?


    Find a fairly typical but reasonably complex part and get a demo.

    In my (admitedly limited experience) these things never work that well.
  • I would use PC-DMIS CAD++ (DCIs) or PC-DMIS Planner (DCIs) for this type of programming for PMI's. Especially if you have to do a lot of editing. Because
    PLM Automation Siemens NX and PAS Technology exports in DMIS.
  • Find a fairly typical but reasonably complex part and get a demo.

    In my (admitedly limited experience) these things never work that well.

    This is my advice as well. I had demos from two vendors before buying PCDmis. Neither could get it to work on the demo with one of our more complex parts.

    This leaves you with a bunch of code to read through and debug. So as far as training,

    Who is trained to read pure DMIS?
    Who is going to read through DMIS code to determine what the machine is supposed to be doing versus what it is doing and correct if needed?
    How many bugs will exist after automatic dump of code?
    How long does it take to go through the code? I always find it harder to read another persons code (whether PCDmis, visual basic, BASIC, C+, whatever) than debug my own. I wrote it, I know what I was thinking and where I was going. I don't know that about other people.

    Add the estimated costs up for all that and make the fiscally wise choice, whatever it is.

    Siemens NX was NOT something I had demo'd. But if I were in an environment where the same was being contemplated, this is what I would do.

    Also, what is the support group for it? With all the problems PCDmis has, and continues to have, this is a very well populated forum with good advice in a VERY timely manner. If you have to wait 2 days for a reply to a question with any solution you go with, how much are you going to get done? This was a selling point for me with this software.
  • We spent a couple years looking into “Valisys”, the Unigraphics CMM programming extension. I am sure it has matured since then. But, it was expencive, buggy, slow, very complex and still ran though PCDMIS to control the CMM.

    We did NOT adopt the NX solution. I believe we are WAY ahead by doing online programming in PCDMIS. Measured and alignment targets are generated in NX 7.5. That works well. But, putting the probe path together, is best done in PCDMIS.

    Garry
  • - I came from a company that used Valysis for many years. Extremely powerful software. The current offering in NX is NOT Valysis. It is a completely new product that is built on the NX manufacturing module core.
    - One of the biggest advantages to NX Inspect is that it is a platform neutral option. You develop your program inside NX and then post out the code using a customizable post-processor just like all CAM software on the market. Of course, this means that you need to write the post-processor, or have someone do it for you. NX inspect comes with a post that will post out pure DMIS code exactly to the standard. PC-DMIS does not use pure DMIS code. I have been told that it is quite possible to write a post that will work perfectly fine with PC-DMIS. I haven't seen it done myself.
    - When I previewed this software it was very young and had very few features integrated. If you were measuring anything other than circles and planes you were in for a lot of customization (you can write your own user defined features but its a lot of work if you haven't done it a lot before). I'm sure it has come a long way since then.
    - I'm sure it will read the PMI just fine but the PMI has to be right. If there are any mistakes at that level you've got a screwed CMM program. PC-DMIS will also read the PMI and generate the program for you. I think nearly all CMM software packages available today will do this. The trick here is that you must set up a database of strategies that get applied to each type of feature that is detected. If you are making the exact same thing all the time and that thing has very easily definable features that will always use the same strategy then this should work great. If you are working in a job shop environment forget about it. You would spend more time trying to update the database than it would take to write the program.
    - Working inside NX and having access to all of the geometry creation tools is very nice.

    To compare apples to apples you would need to look at PC-DMIS with the planner module and the NX direct CAD interface. This will allow you to work inside NX and will allow you to generate the code from the PMI. I think you will find that going with PC-DMIS with these two modules will be a better solution. The situation where the scales tip the other way is when you have a mixed CMM environment and you need to program in PC-DMIS, MODUS, and Metrolog (for example). In this type of situation the platform neutral approach makes a ton of sense. You write one program in NX and post it out to run in 3 different software packages.
  • -- When I previewed this software it was very young and had very few features integrated. If you were measuring anything other than circles and planes you were in for a lot of customization (you can write your own user defined features but its a lot of work if you haven't done it a lot before).

    One of the things I am really curious about is how efficient the NX-generated programs are. To save time on program execution I like using individual points to construct features, rather than using Auto-Circle for several concentric diameters. This takes longer to program, of course, but it keeps parts moving. I suspect that NX will not do this for me automatically.

    --To compare apples to apples you would need to look at PC-DMIS with the planner module and the NX direct CAD interface. This will allow you to work inside NX and will allow you to generate the code from the PMI. I think you will find that going with PC-DMIS with these two modules will be a better solution. The situation where the scales tip the other way is when you have a mixed CMM environment and you need to program in PC-DMIS, MODUS, and Metrolog (for example). In this type of situation the platform neutral approach makes a ton of sense. You write one program in NX and post it out to run in 3 different software packages.

    All of our machines are B&S Globals running PC-DMIS, so for that reason I would feel better with a Hexagon product. But is it really nessecary to use PC-DMIS Planner to take advantage of the PMI? Our engineering department is already using NX and Teamcenterfor CAD/CAM purposes, and it would be easy to add the CMM option. If we go with PC-DMIS Planner, how well can that be integrated with the NX/Teamcenter system? Does the PMI need to be created in Planner, or can it be imported?
  • I can't answer your question with the level of detail that you will require. Both Hexagon and Siemens should will be more than happy to demo this stuff and provide you with a limited trial license.

    PC-DMIS imports the PMI generated in NX. Nearly all CAD systems have a feature like PMI these days. PCDMIS will import any of them. I am pretty sure that you need a specific module to do this, however. It isn't just base functionality.

    Bottom line is that PCDMIS can definitely do everything that NX can do in this regard. The only advantages to the NX module would be if you have engineers who are already very comfortable programming NC machines in NX and you need them to start programming CMMs or you have a mixed environment and need to post out to multiple systems. If you are already comfortable in PCDMIS and you are only running Hexagon hardware I would be amazed if you find a significant benefit to the NX module.
  • DaSalo, I am with you. I keep hearing that you can write PC-Dmis post processors but I have not come across anyone who has...

    IF you have any contacts (not PC-Dmis or Siemens) that have worked to this end I would love to see how their experience went.

    I do all my CNC programing with NX and all my CMM programming with PC-mis and It would be much better if all the code source was within NX obviously.
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