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Lack of confidence in CMM

I've been using the CMM for a about 4 years now in a job shop. We only use it when we *need* to (when we need to produce an inspection report for the customer). I'm the only CMM operator. Running 2012 MR1 CAD. I have several parts that I need to inspect and report on and have the same issues with, but I'll direct this thread toward one in particular.

I need to measure true position of some threaded holes and straight holes that will have pins pressed in them. I'm using the CMM currently to do an in-process inspection so the machinist knows he can run the parts. These are fairly complex parts with multiple operations. The threaded holes (measured before threads) are okay because they have a tolerance of .2mm to ABC. The pin hole (for 6mm pin) positions look strange and are out of spec. [TP|⌀.08|A|B|C]

I'm pretty sure my alignment is good. I leveled, rotated and set XYZ to Datums A, B and C (all planes). My part is up on 3 points and against a stop (repeatable). I'm taking 6 hits on 3 circles per hole and using the circles to create cylinders, then taking TP on the cylinders. I calibrate the probe every time I change it (manual). (I'm switching between 2 jobs today that both require separate probes.) I made sure my air bearing ways were clean, along with the probe, calibration tool and table.

I can post code or portions of the print if needed, but I'm mostly wondering what the general causes of error are in a CMM program? I've searched through many forum posts to find out what I could be missing in my program. The machinists never like when I have to inspect something because they don't trust my numbers. I try to verify my numbers with the height gauge, but if the numbers aren't exact then everyone has a theory (or 3) as to why things didn't come out right. Often someone will pick whichever they *feel* is better and go with that method (CMM or height gage), even if the other shows numbers out of tolerance.
What else can I do to be confident in my program and my TP numbers?

Any help would be greatly appreciated.
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  • I've been using the CMM for a about 4 years now in a job shop. We only use it when we *need* to (when we need to produce an inspection report for the customer). I'm the only CMM operator. Running 2012 MR1 CAD. I have several parts that I need to inspect and report on and have the same issues with, but I'll direct this thread toward one in particular.

    I need to measure true position of some threaded holes and straight holes that will have pins pressed in them. I'm using the CMM currently to do an in-process inspection so the machinist knows he can run the parts. These are fairly complex parts with multiple operations. The threaded holes (measured before threads) are okay because they have a tolerance of .2mm to ABC. The pin hole (for 6mm pin) positions look strange and are out of spec. [TP|⌀.08|A|B|C]

    I'm pretty sure my alignment is good. I leveled, rotated and set XYZ to Datums A, B and C (all planes). My part is up on 3 points and against a stop (repeatable). I'm taking 6 hits on 3 circles per hole and using the circles to create cylinders, then taking TP on the cylinders. I calibrate the probe every time I change it (manual). (I'm switching between 2 jobs today that both require separate probes.) I made sure my air bearing ways were clean, along with the probe, calibration tool and table.

    I can post code or portions of the print if needed, but I'm mostly wondering what the general causes of error are in a CMM program? I've searched through many forum posts to find out what I could be missing in my program. The machinists never like when I have to inspect something because they don't trust my numbers. I try to verify my numbers with the height gauge, but if the numbers aren't exact then everyone has a theory (or 3) as to why things didn't come out right. Often someone will pick whichever they *feel* is better and go with that method (CMM or height gage), even if the other shows numbers out of tolerance.
    What else can I do to be confident in my program and my TP numbers?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.


    The bold section -

    Reporting Position of cylinders can be problematic at times (at least when they report OOT). You also don't say how much OOT the pin holes are, this also matters as far as providing any suggestions.

    Iin any case, here are some things to investigate:

    • Are the cylinders perpendicular to the surface they intersect?
    • Using Legacy or XactMeasure for reporting? XM has additional check boxes that will affect the reporting.
    • When reporting is the Position reported using Worst, Average, or Start/End points? Each one can produce a different result.
    • Do the linear deviations "match up" with the reported Position deviation?
    • Are points taken at each level at the same height?
    • Are separate circles taken and cylinders constructed, or is auto-cylinder used?
    • What algorithm is used to create the cylinders?
Reply
  • I've been using the CMM for a about 4 years now in a job shop. We only use it when we *need* to (when we need to produce an inspection report for the customer). I'm the only CMM operator. Running 2012 MR1 CAD. I have several parts that I need to inspect and report on and have the same issues with, but I'll direct this thread toward one in particular.

    I need to measure true position of some threaded holes and straight holes that will have pins pressed in them. I'm using the CMM currently to do an in-process inspection so the machinist knows he can run the parts. These are fairly complex parts with multiple operations. The threaded holes (measured before threads) are okay because they have a tolerance of .2mm to ABC. The pin hole (for 6mm pin) positions look strange and are out of spec. [TP|⌀.08|A|B|C]

    I'm pretty sure my alignment is good. I leveled, rotated and set XYZ to Datums A, B and C (all planes). My part is up on 3 points and against a stop (repeatable). I'm taking 6 hits on 3 circles per hole and using the circles to create cylinders, then taking TP on the cylinders. I calibrate the probe every time I change it (manual). (I'm switching between 2 jobs today that both require separate probes.) I made sure my air bearing ways were clean, along with the probe, calibration tool and table.

    I can post code or portions of the print if needed, but I'm mostly wondering what the general causes of error are in a CMM program? I've searched through many forum posts to find out what I could be missing in my program. The machinists never like when I have to inspect something because they don't trust my numbers. I try to verify my numbers with the height gauge, but if the numbers aren't exact then everyone has a theory (or 3) as to why things didn't come out right. Often someone will pick whichever they *feel* is better and go with that method (CMM or height gage), even if the other shows numbers out of tolerance.
    What else can I do to be confident in my program and my TP numbers?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated.


    The bold section -

    Reporting Position of cylinders can be problematic at times (at least when they report OOT). You also don't say how much OOT the pin holes are, this also matters as far as providing any suggestions.

    Iin any case, here are some things to investigate:

    • Are the cylinders perpendicular to the surface they intersect?
    • Using Legacy or XactMeasure for reporting? XM has additional check boxes that will affect the reporting.
    • When reporting is the Position reported using Worst, Average, or Start/End points? Each one can produce a different result.
    • Do the linear deviations "match up" with the reported Position deviation?
    • Are points taken at each level at the same height?
    • Are separate circles taken and cylinders constructed, or is auto-cylinder used?
    • What algorithm is used to create the cylinders?
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