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Runout Experts needed...

Ray Harvey
I have 2 circles that I scanned. I drew a line between the 2 and that is being used as my Datum. Can runout be measured using a line drawn between to circles? I was told that using cones makes it nearly impossible to get good runout data.
  • Your question is very short-worded, so we can only imply a few conditions...
    I have 2 circles that I scanned. I drew a line between the 2 and that is being used as my Datum.
    Are these two circles for your datum coaxial?

    Can runout be measured using a line drawn between to circles?
    No. Runout is a surface measurement, not an axis measurement. You would be measuring concentricity if you judge only the center-line.

    I was told that using cones makes it nearly impossible to get good runout data.
    What does this have to do with cones?
  • in reply to louisd
    if these circles are 2 locations on a shaft for example, I construct a line using 2 circles to define the part axis then use it as a datum to check concentricity or runout of other features against, I think this is what he means
  • in reply to louisd
    yes you can use two circles to level to, for establishing a datum axis.
    Measurement of runout is not relative to the axis line however, it is measured as a circumferential "total indicator readout" of the part surface.



    • " Measurement of runout is not relative to the axis line however, it is measured as a circumferential "total indicator readout" of the part surface".

      Isnt this exactly what runout is ? The surface in relation to an AXIS / DATUM ?
  • in reply to Schlag
    Page 180 of Y14.5-2009
    SECTION 9-2
    Runout is the tol. used to control the function relationship of 1 or more features to a datum axis established from a datum feature.
  • in reply to louisd
    yes the total variation of the surface while rotated about that axis line, the axis is just the datum not the runout itself. Move the axis and the runout value changes though so it is not really as independent of center point as a circularity measurement is, but yes the error is on the surface in both cases
  • in reply to Schlag
    Shlag, the question posed is worded rather oddly. "Can runout be measured using a line drawn between to circles?"
    The answer is No. Runout cannot be MEASURED using a line. Never ever. Runout must be measured as we've both clarified.

    DATUM ALIGNMENT can be established with a line drawn between two circles, then runout can be measured circumferentially, relative to that line...
    --you can't MEASURE (aka quantify variation numerically) runout with an axis line.
  • Yes. I do this a lot. But not through just two circles.

    I have many turned parts where -A- is an outside diameter, -B- is a different sized outside diameter, and there is GD&T all over my print that says '"Runout of a certain diameter A-B".

    I will measure three individual autocircles on -A-. Three individual autocircles on -B-. Put a point at the center of each circle. Construct a 3D line through the six points. Then..Insert an alignment....Level to Line A-B..Translate X and Y to Line A-B, Translate Z to a plane/point where I want it.

    If you want to see some sample code LMK.
  • in reply to DAN_M
    Sure. I will try this out and see if this works. If you have some samples I would appreciate it. That actually makes a lot of sense to do it that way...

    Thanks….
  • in reply to DAN_M 
    COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,
            Once you press OKAY to this message....

            Measure a circle (4 hits) in the side hole
            COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,
            Press OKAY for CNC Measurement
            MODE/MANUAL
            WORKPLANE/XPLUS
CIR_3PLACE_MANUAL=FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<0.55,-0.486,-3.38>,<1,0,0>,0.2475
            ACTL/<0.55,-0.486,-3.38>,<1,0,0>,0.2475
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            MODE/DCC
CYL_3PLACE_CNC=FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
            THEO/<0.585,-0.486,-3.38>,<1,0,0>,0.2475,0.075
            ACTL/<0.585,-0.486,-3.38>,<1,0,0>,0.2475,0.075
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A3         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:STARTUP,LIST=YES
              ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,ZPLUS,PLN_Z1
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              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,CIR_XY2
              ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,CIR_XY2
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            ALIGNMENT/END
            MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<1.5,-0.486,-3.38>
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            MOVE/INCREMENT,<1.1172,0,0>
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