Forum behavior

...yep ...same old ...same old....er....yep so craigers b-day today huh?

whos craiger

whos craiger

you don't know him?? really nice fella

Eric, awesome post, I'm going to take a tiny bit of time to respond (edit this post... now edited).

1. Bannings were intentional for good reasons (even if those banned don't think they are). We have offered every person banned recently (all of four people) to come back if they wish.
2. If you are worried about being banned, they you are not someone who would be banned. Trust me when I say the worst offenders do not apologize for their actions, or think about their professionalism. If you can say it in a room full of coworkers, then it is ok to say here.
3. You have been helping, I see that, and greatly appreciate it. With the pot stirrers mostly gone, I hope good people can take over here. I'll be a part of that.
4. Keep asking any questions you want (especially if I missed anything), it's why I left this thread open. I'll answer anything that doesn't infringe on the privacy of others (even though it is not their right, what they do in public is public information).


thanks again.

Brian,

I appreciate you taking the time to respond and here's the thing from where I sit as a semi involved observer.

1. Yes you, and by you I mean the forum admins, have every right to ban people to police the content of the forum and no I didn't witness all of what was done to earn those bannings but it seems to me to have come in a very sudden and heavy handed manner. From what I have seen heard from other discussions there was little done that hasn't happened numerous other times and not resulted in bannings merely removal of the offending posts so the suddenness of what happened does come as something of a surprise to the community at large. There have been banning for repeated violations of the TOS, mainly as I remember in the posting of questionable pictures but from what I know never for content of messages along the lines of what I have been able to figure out was posted. Also it appears that some of those things that were done recently were overturned which suggests at least some sort of tacit admission that it was a little heavy handed.
2. All of that said why shouldn't we be worried about being banned? I have and will again say things here and elsewhere that are critical of the software and the forum and the people on the forum. As to the software at least, there are legitimate gripes to the way things are handled for the users from the standpoint of Hexagon. You started this thread with a discription of how to handle bugs in the software and those are the proper channels yes, but the fact of the matter is that some of the things that happen in these releases should never see the light of day let alone have to be diagnosed and dealt with by the users. Those things are legitimate problems that we all have with the software. This job is hard enough and I don't know about the other users but the industry paradigm that I keep running into is that CMM results can only be trusted so far and we have to prove ourselves beyond what should be reasonably necessary. We as the users don't need to add faulty software to the list of problems that we deal with. More so than the software problems we deal with my biggest frustration is a majority of my peers. I would venture to say that most of the people operating these machines have no business being anywhere near them due to lack of experience and training. Many of them will never know just how much they don't know and yes at times they get bashed, especially when they come to us, the unpaid forum members, demanding that we do their jobs and then not liking how we handle it. Not all of the people on here are like that and most of the people on here who offer the most help do know what they are doing but those people are a small number of all of the people who are on this site and they are the ones that are being driven away. I don't claim to be any kind of expert in the software but I know enough to get my job done and I for one am offended by the way some of the people who come to this site demanding help act. I'm not sure what passes for pot stirring in your book but honestly from where I sit I can't say that I have seen much of that from the people who were banned. At least not much that wasn't legitimate in my opinion, but again I haven't seen everything.

Like I have said I haven't seen much of why things were done, only the aftermath of what's been done, but I have to say that the response to the user base very much feels like a [waves hand]These are not the droids you are looking for[/waves hand] moment and that's not really pleasing from the point of view of this user. This is the place that users come to learn from the experience of people actually using the software because the training that most users get is woefully inadequate for actually doing the job. The people with that experience are the ones who are turned off by the way things look and nothing I have seen yet makes me feel any easier about being a part of this community.

I have to agree with a statement John made in his question to Admin thread

In my opinion, you owe an explanation to the membership that have helped grow this community.

I would even take it one step further and not say helped grow this community but are the entirety of this community because with the exception of fits and gasps here and there there is a very small percentage of what goes on here that Hexagon appears to contribute to other than giving us this space. Almost all of what gets done on here is done by non-Hexagon employees. I know that it's just our opinion as the members of the community and not probably shared by the forum admin but I feel pretty safe speaking for most of us in that's the way we feel.

The posting of help here is ( in my opinion ) like employment at will. If the question is something I'm willing to help with i will. A lot of the time the questions can't be answered with the info provided or I just don't feel like answering. Its pretty simple like that. I've worked hard to get where I'm at and Ive studied this software pretty **** hard, so what I know is mine and what I choose to give is up to me. Ive always figured I was subject to the whim of who ever runs this joint, so i don't take any offense to any heat I draw on to myself.

The recent turdstorm was just that, a turdstorm. I can see both sides gripes and both sides points. You're both right and you're both wrong, in both your delivery, and your execution. Even if the intentions were justified, however that's not for me to judge or lose any sleep over. Nothing good came out of it on either side and now we'll go thru the next "evolution" of the pcdmis forum, both in attitude and content.

The CORRECT way to get your concerns across would be to go thru your local sales person. Speak with your money or your PO if necessary but make sure they hear and know your concerns. These folks only get paid if you play, and they want you to play. Bugs need to be taken to an AE or the help line, with a decent write up so they can be duplicated and wishes need to be made at user group meetings. This forum is a sales tool and a user board, not a feedback loop to Hexagon metrology. I mean if you remember the actual drop in's by Hex employees USED to be rare. This was supposed to be our place to help each other.

Bottom line, if WE ( users ) want things to change for the better then we need to get involved and then speak with our money if the normal channels fail. Hexagon markets well and im betting they watch the numbers like a hawk, if NORMAL channels fail I can guarantee a change in revenue won't. But we need to be specific! Things like "this is buggy crap" or "fix my CMM" won't go anywhere because you can't fix what you can't identify.

We have offered every person banned recently (all of four people) to come back if they wish. This is simply not true. You have NOT offered me any such thing. In fact, you have been banning my IP addresses CONTINUALLY as you discover them.
Trust me when I say the worst offenders do not apologize for their actions, or think about their professionalism. If you can say it in a room full of coworkers, then it is ok to say here. Can you hold yourselves to this same standard? Those who've behaved as you describe FIRST are admin. You (admin) may not be the worst offender, but you were DEFINITELY the first.

Brian, You'll get a lot more play if you reverse field. It is you who owe this forum the apology. Admin became thugs FIRST. And THEN, ( AFTER THAT) the response came back hard.
It is my opinion that one of the worst forms of disrespect (and the reason your 'forum' has become what it has) is the common lie. Deleting all the bug threads, and then trying to deny it ever happened, banning those who dare to question, making their posts invisible.... Those things are dishonest. They are lies.

And for the record your behavior has caused most of the top programmers in the country to abandon this place. You did this to yourselves.

The funny part is the fix is easy.
It is a post that starts out: Dear members, It appears we made a mistake in the way we handled the recent forum issues and some of our members......................

Brian, I only speak for myself butI hope you put some thought into this reversal of field. Respect cannot be forced into people.

Brian,
Thanks for taking the time to answer at least some of the concerns.
I know that some posts and threads disappeared. There were at least 3 threads that referenced PC-DMIS 2010 and bugs. Those were deleted, even if you can't find evidence of that. Perhaps that information has been hidden from you, or you are hiding something you don't want us to know. I will never know.
I can't lie, I have posted some smartaleked comments at some of the newbies. Sadly, there appears to be a new crop of "newbie programmers" every few months. Many of them demand that we help them. I often wonder if this shows the quality (or lack of quality) within the training. Perhaps the forum is a good benchmark of the training.
Some of my comments have been edited. I've also seen my Arrogant Bast@rd Ale label deleted from posts.
But NO comment or warning was made. As Eric said, this "policing" was a sudden, heavy handed reaction. Perhaps warnings would have helped?

Thanks to the community for keeping this professional.
Special thanks to EHines and Ironhoe for very intelligent posts.

John

All the gritty stuff always happens when I get to busy to check in for a week or two. Q,Q

See what happens when we Brits leave you colonials to your own devices for a while

Bollocks!

More a little bit later today, I've received a lot of good feedback from people both publicly and privately. Thanks all!