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Forum behavior

Brian Gudauskas
Guys, I’ve been watching with interest and quietly for some time since I was alerted to some recent issues.

Since then I’ve seen many people helping, and being constructive, thank you, you know who you are.

However I’ve seen a small minority posting:

1. Pornography and NSFW posts
2. Admin – baiting
3. Rants, with no purpose other than to incite
4. Ridicule bordering on bullying

Are we going to let a couple of people ruin this for everyone? We put this forum here for us all to discuss the software, to help each other, not for a few people to commandeer for the personal entertainment. There are other places to put NSFW posts and rants, we should be professional on this forum.

We have to protect new users from abuse. We have to enforce the rules for everyone. Criticism is allowed and encouraged (prefer constructive criticism), but flagrant violation of the rules, and bullying of anyone cannot be tolerated. I have been a staunch defender of our open forum for years. Other OEM forums are closed, or non-existent, what does that say about the freedom that is offered here? Let’s respect our privileges or risk them being taken away.

If you want to respond to my plea for professionalism with some remarks about how the software has let you down, has personally screwed you out of house and home, mugged you and your brother, whatever, please don’t. The forum is for discussion, not for logging bugs. If you feel so strongly about the software (which is good), please try to actually do something constructive about the issue through official channels. Here is how.

1. First contact technical support, and report the problem. 800-343-7933. This works, I have followed many customers through the system. YES, I believe like all technical support that it is far from perfect, but at least start here so you can get your call logged and have something to whine to me about. If you don’t like to call, use this form: http://hexagonmetrology.us/contact-us.
2. If you do not receive the timely response you desire, call your sales representative. They will help.
3. If all these fail for a specific issue you have, PM me telling me what happened in technical support, who your sales rep is, and if you entered a contact request. I will follow up with each and make sure the system is working for you and for everyone. Allow me time, I do have a day job, and I'm just one person.
4. If after all that, you still don't like the response you are getting, fill out the customer survey here with your experiences: http://hexagonmetrology.us/contact-us/customer-satisfaction-survey . It is logged and reviewed.

Thanks for your professionalism in advance, please help me make this a better place.

  • 1. Yes you, and by you I mean the forum admins, have every right to ban people to police the content of the forum
     - Yes, the right AND the responsibility.

    and no I didn't witness all of what was done to earn those bannings but it seems to me to have come in a very sudden and heavy handed manner.
     - If you didn't witness, how do you know they were heavy? Or sudden? I personally won't pass judgment on it, we all need to move on. Complain about what's happening today, not what happened in the past, it's all that's worth talking about.

    From what I have seen heard from other discussions there was little done that hasn't happened numerous other times and not resulted in bannings merely removal of the offending posts so the suddenness of what happened does come as something of a surprise to the community at large. There have been banning for repeated violations of the TOS, mainly as I remember in the posting of questionable pictures but from what I know never for content of messages along the lines of what I have been able to figure out was posted. Also it appears that some of those things that were done recently were overturned which suggests at least some sort of tacit admission that it was a little heavy handed.
     - Don't believe everything you hear. Also, first posts are removed, then temporary bannings, then permanent bannings. You don't see everything that goes on because admin cleans it up. The board is a privilege (for me too being an employee of Hexagon), not a right. Therefore it can be taken away at any time if we abuse it.


    2. All of that said why shouldn't we be worried about being banned?
     - Because you've seen plenty of criticism go on even after bannings, and those members are still here. If you saw some of the things that were posted, you would agree. But I won't stoop to satisfying anyone's morbid curiosity, administration is our responsibility and we take it seriously.

    I have and will again say things here and elsewhere that are critical of the software and the forum and the people on the forum.
     - Please do so if you feel it, just be constructive. If all you bring here is criticism and don't help others, and don't offer solutions, then you have nothing to offer (Not you Eric BTW). If you have nothing to offer the board, we reserve the right to delete posts, and ban you from the forum. It's that simple.

    I'm not sure what passes for pot stirring in your book but honestly from where I sit I can't say that I have seen much of that from the people who were banned. At least not much that wasn't legitimate in my opinion, but again I haven't seen everything.
     - Exactly. You have not seen everything, because it was removed. If you don't know what pot stirring is, you are not one. Those who do, know.

    Like I have said I haven't seen much of why things were done, only the aftermath of what's been done, but I have to say that the response to the user base very much feels like a [waves hand]These are not the droids you are looking for[/waves hand] moment and that's not really pleasing from the point of view of this user. This is the place that users come to learn from the experience of people actually using the software because the training that most users get is woefully inadequate for actually doing the job. The people with that experience are the ones who are turned off by the way things look and nothing I have seen yet makes me feel any easier about being a part of this community.
     - I think the desire to find out the gory details of why people were banned is the same need that people have to stop on a highway to look at an accident. It's not cool in my book. Sorry.

    Hope that helps, thanks for the post.
  • Brian,
    Thanks for taking the time to answer at least some of the concerns.
    I know that some posts and threads disappeared. There were at least 3 threads that referenced PC-DMIS 2010 and bugs. Those were deleted, even if you can't find evidence of that. Perhaps that information has been hidden from you, or you are hiding something you don't want us to know. I will never know.
     - I suspect the bug threads in question devolved as most of them will. If the thread had no valuable information, then it probably was deleted. I will look for them. No one here would hide anything, there are plenty of other PC-DMIS bug threads. Feel free to start more, just keep it constructive. If the whole thread goes to crap, I would nuke it too. It has to be useful to users of the software.

    I can't lie, I have posted some smartaleked comments at some of the newbies. Sadly, there appears to be a new crop of "newbie programmers" every few months. Many of them demand that we help them. I often wonder if this shows the quality (or lack of quality) within the training. Perhaps the forum is a good benchmark of the training.
     I don't think the forum is a good benchmark of anything, as it is often a vocal minority that speaks up. I can't tell you how many PM's I got supporting my professionalism stance compared to the number of postings. It seems drama is more fun (not specifically talking about you John, just in general). Training is never enough, only real world experience makes you good. Good natured fun with newbies with a sense of humor is expected, we don't expect you guys to support them, but it's nice to be a part of a community. That's what this is about. All of us were newbies at some point in our lives.

    Some of my comments have been edited. I've also seen my Arrogant Bast@rd Ale label deleted from posts.
    But NO comment or warning was made. As Eric said, this "policing" was a sudden, heavy handed reaction. Perhaps warnings would have helped?
     I agree in general with warnings. However I can also commiserate with admin (especially as I am one now). It takes time to moderate. I'd love to have more moderators to help, I'll be looking for vict... I mean volunteers for this task soon. We'll try to do better at warnings in the future.


    Thanks John, appreciate the feedback.
  • Can't say much about your comments Ironhoe, I totally agree. Voting with money is the right way to go, and we (as Hexagon) need to make good versions that satisfy new customers and older (ahem, not old) customers alike. That is a hard thing to do, trust me and our software group works at it everyday. I use the example that many people who used 3.7 or earlier reporting dislike the new reporting, but new customers want and like template based reporting. It's not only a trend, it's a requirement. Our "big customers" are your customers too, and whether any of us like it or not, they drive whole industries and reporting formats. We have to listen to everyone and do our best and we try everyday. Your help is appreciated on this board by many. Thanks.

    The posting of help here is ( in my opinion ) like employment at will. If the question is something I'm willing to help with i will. A lot of the time the questions can't be answered with the info provided or I just don't feel like answering. Its pretty simple like that. I've worked hard to get where I'm at and Ive studied this software pretty **** hard, so what I know is mine and what I choose to give is up to me. Ive always figured I was subject to the whim of who ever runs this joint, so i don't take any offense to any heat I draw on to myself.

    The recent turdstorm was just that, a turdstorm. I can see both sides gripes and both sides points. You're both right and you're both wrong, in both your delivery, and your execution. Even if the intentions were justified, however that's not for me to judge or lose any sleep over. Nothing good came out of it on either side and now we'll go thru the next "evolution" of the pcdmis forum, both in attitude and content.

    The CORRECT way to get your concerns across would be to go thru your local sales person. Speak with your money or your PO if necessary but make sure they hear and know your concerns. These folks only get paid if you play, and they want you to play. Bugs need to be taken to an AE or the help line, with a decent write up so they can be duplicated and wishes need to be made at user group meetings. This forum is a sales tool and a user board, not a feedback loop to Hexagon metrology. I mean if you remember the actual drop in's by Hex employees USED to be rare. This was supposed to be our place to help each other.

    Bottom line, if WE ( users ) want things to change for the better then we need to get involved and then speak with our money if the normal channels fail. Hexagon markets well and im betting they watch the numbers like a hawk, if NORMAL channels fail I can guarantee a change in revenue won't. But we need to be specific! Things like "this is buggy crap" or "fix my CMM" won't go anywhere because you can't fix what you can't identify.
  • Brian,

    I'm not looking for details into what happened, I don't need to know. The problem I have is it feels to me like the stance that is being taken is: nothing happened go about your lives. In reality I don't feel that's the case. That stance is being moderated somewhat now and things that have been done are being corrected somewhat which suggests to me that even you guys don't believe that. We have the TOS and we will abide by that or be dealt with, and very few on here will have much of a problem with that IF it's done consistently. If suddenly things happen differently because someone has a bad day it's not fair to us users and unfortunately many of us will go.
  • But I AM saying things did happen as everyone already knows, and I've contacted every affected member for their side of the story (even one who's actions were awful, and in clear violation of anyone's decency). I am independently looking at this, and I invite anyone to PM me their phone number (or for mine) to call if they think otherwise. It's very fair for you to ask for the rules to be applied consistently, but so far I can't find how they weren't. I will reinstate anyone who thinks they did nothing to deserve banning, or any thread that had a use that was unfairly deleted. What more can I do? Seriously all ears.

    Brian,

    I'm not looking for details into what happened, I don't need to know. The problem I have is it feels to me like the stance that is being taken is: nothing happened go about your lives. In reality I don't feel that's the case. That stance is being moderated somewhat now and things that have been done are being corrected somewhat which suggests to me that even you guys don't believe that. We have the TOS and we will abide by that or be dealt with, and very few on here will have much of a problem with that IF it's done consistently. If suddenly things happen differently because someone has a bad day it's not fair to us users and unfortunately many of us will go.
  • I was going to post something bigger, but I am not in the mood. For my 2 cents, Hexagon has dropped the ball with PCDMIS. Now you can say, call tech support, or call your local sales guy. In my case, Tech Support hasn't helped and my sales guy doesn't call me back. I firmly believe that it is not Brown and Sharpe's fault. There are a LOT of good people working there and I know some of them personally. I think Hexagon is too big and too far away for that personal touch that the old Brown and Sharpe / Wilcox Associates had.

    .02 (Canadian)

    Signed,
    Frustrated in Wisconsin.
  • Can't say much about your comments Ironhoe, I totally agree. Voting with money is the right way to go, and we (as Hexagon) need to make good versions that satisfy new customers and older (ahem, not old) customers alike. That is a hard thing to do, trust me and our software group works at it everyday. I use the example that most people who used 3.7 or earlier reporting hate the new reporting, but new customers want and like template based reporting. It's not only a trend, it's a requirement. Our "big customers" are your customers too, and whether any of us like it or not, they drive whole industries and reporting formats. We have to listen to everyone and do our best and we try everyday. Your help is appreciated on this board by many. Thanks.


    Of course you can't say much about my post. You think that my wording was accidental? ;-) This ain't my first goat roping. I'm pretty sure you exaggerate the appreciation of my contribution to the happy little village here, I tend to be pretty abrasive and say the things ya'll are thinking but don't wanna step in, that makes more than a few itchy and gives them the "not so fresh feeling". But that's me, and that's MY lot in life.
  • I hope we are not too big to call you John, seriously. I agree we need to do better.

    I was going to post something bigger, but I am not in the mood. For my 2 cents, Hexagon has dropped the ball with PCDMIS. Now you can say, call tech support, or call your local sales guy. In my case, Tech Support hasn't helped and my sales guy doesn't call me back. I firmly believe that it is not Brown and Sharpe's fault. There are a LOT of good people working there and I know some of them personally. I think Hexagon is too big and too far away for that personal touch that the old Brown and Sharpe / Wilcox Associates had.

    .02 (Canadian)

    Signed,
    Frustrated in Wisconsin.
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