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IATF / ISO 17025 Calibration

bfire85
All you programmers who work in Automotive and/or are IATF certified, do you have Hexagon calibrate your CMMs to ISO 17025?

At last year's audit, we were dinged for not having the ANAB label on our CMM certs. In the past we just did the B89 or ISO 10360 (vision). Per the IATF standard 7.1.5.3.2 the certificate of calibration or test report shall include the mark of a national accreditation body. Hexagon only does this with an ISO 17025 calibration. Hexagon won't add the ANAB onto the certs unless they do an ISO 17025 calibration, even though they are ANAB certified.

This year we are adding this to our MyCare package and now Hexagon wants to charge an additional $2K for each CMM calibration.

How many of you ran into this or currently do this?
  • Not sure of this, but I believe there's a mistake between calibrating a cmm under ISO17025 and using standards calibrated under ISO17025...
    The difference is enormous, and many auditors don't see it...
    Here, there are 4 labs which get the accreditation for calibrating cmm's.
  • ISO 17025 references ASME B89 as the standard used for CMM calibration. I was always under the impression that a B89 was ISO 17025 accredited. 3 years of calibrations under IATF and we never had that issue.
  • All our auditor wants to see is Hexagon's ANAB accreditation on the cert and Hexagon is telling me the only way they will do that is to perform an ISO 17025 calibration. Seems like money extortion to me.


  • The following link is for Hexagon: https://www.hexagonmi.com/-/media/Fi...1E9A18C4BF8BE2

    That is the accreditation cert and lab scope for their facility near me. That states that they are an ISO 17025 accredited lab by ANAB. The scope shows which standards, methods, and equipment is used for the equipment/ parameters calibrated. If Hexagon gives you a calibration report that contains their info and the standards, methods, and equipment called out in their scope, then it is accredited and traceable to ISO 17025 and ANAB.

    You should have that accreditation on file at your facility. That is the evidence that the calibration is legit. The report is just the results and the specific tools and processes for a specific calibration.

    Also, IATF standard 7.1.5.3.2 doesn't say anything about having to have an ANAB accreditation. It states that "the laboratory shall be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 or its national equivalent." ANAB is just one accreditation body. A2LA also does ISO 17025 accreditation.

    Here is the most recent IATF clarification: https://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/IATF-16949-SIs-April-2021.pdf
    The clause in question is on pages 10 and 11. It is a bit convoluted but it might help.
  • The following link is for Hexagon: https://www.hexagonmi.com/-/media/Fi...1E9A18C4BF8BE2

    That is the accreditation cert and lab scope for their facility near me. That states that they are an ISO 17025 accredited lab by ANAB. The scope shows which standards, methods, and equipment is used for the equipment/ parameters calibrated. If Hexagon gives you a calibration report that contains their info and the standards, methods, and equipment called out in their scope, then it is accredited and traceable to ISO 17025 and ANAB.

    You should have that accreditation on file at your facility. That is the evidence that the calibration is legit. The report is just the results and the specific tools and processes for a specific calibration.

    Also, IATF standard 7.1.5.3.2 doesn't say anything about having to have an ANAB accreditation. It states that "the laboratory shall be accredited to ISO/IEC 17025 or its national equivalent." ANAB is just one accreditation body. A2LA also does ISO 17025 accreditation.

    Here is the most recent IATF clarification: https://www.iatfglobaloversight.org/wp/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/IATF-16949-SIs-April-2021.pdf
    The clause in question is on pages 10 and 11. It is a bit convoluted but it might help.

    "the certificate of calibration or test report shall include the mark of a national accreditation body" ---

    I am working with Hexagon right now to clarify this. Based on their lab scope if they do an ISO 10360 or B89 with Koba, that gets the ANAB accreditation on the cert.

    Am I correct on that?


  • "the certificate of calibration or test report shall include the mark of a national accreditation body" ---

    I am working with Hexagon right now to clarify this. Based on their lab scope if they do an ISO 10360 or B89 with Koba, that gets the ANAB accreditation on the cert.

    Am I correct on that?

    If they performed either of those tests on the appropriate machines per their lab scope, it should be. Look through the entire report. Sometimes they put the ANAB logo around where the technician signs it or such. The company that does our calibrations now has the logo on the last page with all the fine print and standard/methods callouts. I have seen certs from some places that simply call out their main Cert of Accreditation/Lab Scope on the cert report as reference.

    There are quite a few companies that have certs that do not meet IATF requirements. If that company is not IATF themselves, there is sometimes little that can be done. If you inform the auditor that Hexagon refuses to modify their report and that they are the only calibration option you have, the auditor has no choice but to accept it.... so long as you can prove that it is accredited just not stamped on the report. Possibly, the auditor is being too strict or interpreting it wrong. I've had that happen a few times and had to challenge findings a few times too.
  • I'd tell the auditor-->

    "Hexagon is ISO 17025 registered. Here's a cert proving this that was issued to them by their ANAB/national equivalency accredited "Certification Body" (CB). Please see the mark of the CB here *points to paper*. This document is on record in our Quality System and is also used as part of the objective evidence package that determines whether or not we allow Hexagon to be on our Approved Vendor List.

    Hexagon calibrated our CMM to the B89 spec. Here is the cert from Hexagon proving this.

    Please accept Hexagon's 17025 cert (with ANAB mark), Hexagon's calibration cert for my CMM, as well as this copy of our AVL, as objective evidence that the requirement you're auditing is has been fulfilled."

    Theres a lot of extra words there...hoped this would get your brain aimed in the right direction
  • I am going to attach this documentation from Hexagon. It appears their B89 and ISO 10360 are non-accredited unless they do a before and afters. Unless I am reading this wrong.


  • in reply to bfire85
    I believe that any test that doesn't include LDA can't be considered accredited if you read the last part of that statement. B89 without LDA has no traceable standard to which accreditation can be applied.
  • I am going to attach this documentation from Hexagon. It appears their B89 and ISO 10360 are non-accredited unless they do a before and afters. Unless I am reading this wrong.




    For IATF, you must have "As Found" and "As Left" results on the reports. Somewhere in Section 7 of the IATF guidelines there are like 8-9 bullet points of things that must be on a cert report. So you should be getting the accredited version of the B89.
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