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problem with evalutaing runout

Hello folks,
I have a problem evaluating a runout. It gives me the error message "this tolerance requires a data to be measured in circular cross sections".
But my auto cylinder is circular...

  • A cylinder will evaluate total runout you have chosen circular runout in the FCF. You can construct circles from the individual hits in the cylinder or choose total runout in the FCF.
  • An auto-cylinder measured with multiple levels should work - the geometric tolerance command will automatically look at each level and pull out the circular cross sections, providing all the hits making up each level are at the same depths (within a certain tolerance). How are you measuring the auto-cylinder, is it DCC mode or manual? If it's in manual mode then the depth of each hit may be varying.
  • START      =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:USE_PART_SETUP,LIST=YES
                ALIGNMENT/END
                MODE/MANUAL
                PREHIT/2
                RETRACT/2
                MOVESPEED/ 200
                FORMAT/TEXT,OPTIONS, ,HEADINGS,SYMBOLS, ;NOM,TOL,MEAS,DEV,OUTTOL, ,
                LOADPROBE/TP20_D2_30
                TIP/T1A90B0, SHANKIJK=0, 1, 0, ANGLE=180
                WORKPLANE/YPLUS
                COMMENT/OPER,NO,FULL SCREEN=NO,AUTO-CONTINUE=NO,OVC=NO,
                
                1. Ebene vorne am Teil
                2. DRM 164
                3. Linie unten
                4 Linie oben
    EBENE1     =FEAT/PLANE,CARTESIAN,TRIANGLE
                THEO/<186.232,458.429,-519.823>,<0,1,0>
                ACTL/<198.013,457.999,-525.659>,<0,1,0>
                MEAS/PLANE,3
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<176.793,458.426,-610.03>,<0,1,0>,<189.091,458.21,-458.059>,USE THEO=YES
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<146.041,458.416,-471.507>,<0,1,0>,<274.973,457.651,-559.459>,USE THEO=YES
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<235.863,458.446,-477.932>,<0,1,0>,<129.975,458.137,-559.46>,USE THEO=YES
                ENDMEAS/
    KREIS1     =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<188.304,456.122,-535.144>,<0,1,0>,163.935,0
                ACTL/<202.58,455.87,-535.005>,<0,1,0>,164.148,0
                MEAS/CIRCLE,3,YPLUS
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<153.38,456.153,-460.989>,<-0.4260775,0,0.9046867>,<205.934,455.783,-452.999>,USE THEO=YES
                  MOVE/CIRCULAR
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<269.661,456.328,-525.162>,<0.9925576,0,0.1217759>,<120.618,456.323,-539.294>,USE THEO=YES
                  MOVE/CIRCULAR
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<111.267,455.884,-563.143>,<-0.9398497,0,-0.3415884>,<284.542,455.503,-539.292>,USE THEO=YES
                ENDMEAS/
    LIN1       =FEAT/LINE,CARTESIAN,UNBOUNDED
                THEO/<218.853,422.009,-550.937>,<1,0,0>
                ACTL/<236.377,422.185,-554.672>,<0.9965071,0,-0.0835076>
                MEAS/LINE,2,YPLUS
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<218.853,422.009,-550.937>,<0.0859269,0,0.9963014>,<236.377,422.186,-554.672>,USE THEO=YES
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<230.338,422.009,-551.927>,<0.0859269,0,0.9963014>,<249.578,422.184,-555.779>,USE THEO=YES
                ENDMEAS/
    LIN2       =FEAT/LINE,CARTESIAN,UNBOUNDED
                THEO/<220.858,421.82,-518.833>,<1,0,0>
                ACTL/<231.502,423.407,-515.673>,<0.9968915,0,0.0787861>
                MEAS/LINE,2,YPLUS
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<220.858,421.82,-518.833>,<0.0878861,0,-0.9961305>,<231.502,421.833,-515.673>,USE THEO=YES
                  HIT/BASIC,NORMAL,<232.139,421.82,-517.838>,<0.0878861,0,-0.9961305>,<247.728,424.981,-514.391>,USE THEO=YES
                ENDMEAS/
    LIN3       =FEAT/LINE,CARTESIAN,UNBOUNDED,NO
                THEO/<219.856,421.914,-534.885>,<1,0,0>
                ACTL/<233.915,422.802,-534.971>,<0.9999972,0,-0.0023686>
                CONSTR/LINE,MID,LIN1,LIN2
    A1         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:START,LIST=YES
                  ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,YPLUS,EBENE1
                  ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XPLUS,TO,LIN3,ABOUT,YPLUS
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,KREIS1
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,KREIS1
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,EBENE1
                ALIGNMENT/END
                MODE/DCC
                CLEARP/YPLUS,5,YPLUS,0,ON
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    EB_CNC     =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,1,0>
                ACTL/<0.008,-0.001,-0.008>,<0.0030429,0.9999947,-0.001131>
                TARG/<0,0,0>,<0,1,0>
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>,RADIAL
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=13,NUMROWS=1
                  SPACER=76
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
    A2         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A1,LIST=YES
                  ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,YPLUS,EBENE1
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,EBENE1
                ALIGNMENT/END
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    D_164      =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,OUT,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,-2,0>,<0,1,0>,164,0
                ACTL/<0.001,-2.04,0.214>,<0.003357,0.9999908,-0.0026679>,163.823,0
                TARG/<0,-2,0>,<0,1,0>
                START ANG=-25,END ANG=285
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                DIRECTION=CCW
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=16,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
                  SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                  SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                  FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    A3         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:START,LIST=YES
                  ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,YPLUS,EB_CNC
                  ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XPLUS,TO,LIN3,ABOUT,YPLUS
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,D_164
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,D_164
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,EB_CNC
                ALIGNMENT/END
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                PREHIT/4
                RETRACT/4
    D_144      =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,-1,0>,<0,1,0>,144,5
                ACTL/<-0.028,-1.001,-0.204>,<0.004486,0.9999682,-0.0065975>,144.069,5
                TARG/<0,-1,0>,<0,1,0>
                START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                ANGLE VEC=<0,1,0>
                DIRECTION=CCW
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=17,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
                  SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                  SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                  FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    D144       =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,-1,0>,<0,1,0>,144
                ACTL/<-0.016,-1,-0.19>,<0,1,0>,144.126
                TARG/<0,-1,0>,<0,1,0>
                START ANG=5,END ANG=355
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                DIRECTION=CCW
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=21,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
                  SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                  SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                  FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                PREHIT/2
                RETRACT/2
    D_24       =FEAT/CONTACT/CYLINDER/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,-40,0>,<0,1,0>,24,5
                ACTL/<-0.078,-40.002,-0.286>,<-0.0003351,0.999969,-0.0078609>,24.355,5
                TARG/<0,-40,0>,<0,1,0>
                START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                DIRECTION=CCW
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=17,NUMLEVELS=3,DEPTH=0,END OFFSET=0,PITCH=0
                  SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                  SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                  FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                CLEARP/XPLUS,101,YPLUS,5,ON
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                TIP/T1A90B-90, SHANKIJK=1, 0, -0.001, ANGLE=-89.904
                WORKPLANE/XPLUS
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    SENKUNG_74 =FEAT/CONTACT/PLANE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,NONE,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<74,-27.5,0>,<1,0,0>
                ACTL/<73.931,-27.489,0.002>,<0.9999232,-0.0122245,-0.0020214>
                TARG/<74,-27.5,0>,<1,0,0>
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>,RADIAL
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=13,NUMROWS=1
                  SPACER=12
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                MOVE/POINT,NORMAL,<101,-27.5,200>
                CLEARP/YMINUS,-147,XPLUS,101,ON
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                TIP/T1A90B180, SHANKIJK=0, -1, -0.002, ANGLE=179.944
                WORKPLANE/YMINUS
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    A4         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A3,LIST=YES
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,TIEFE_37.5
                ALIGNMENT/END
    D_22_1.5   =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,1.5,0>,<0,-1,0>,22
                ACTL/<-0.07,1.5,-0.26>,<0,-1,0>,22.072
                TARG/<0,1.5,0>,<0,-1,0>
                START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                DIRECTION=CCW
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=72,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
                  SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                  SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                  FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    D_22_3     =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,3,0>,<0,-1,0>,22
                ACTL/<-0.073,3,-0.263>,<0,-1,0>,22.061
                TARG/<0,3,0>,<0,-1,0>
                START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                DIRECTION=CCW
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=72,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
                  SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                  SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                  FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    D_22_5.5   =FEAT/CONTACT/CIRCLE/DEFAULT,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR
                THEO/<0,5.5,0>,<0,-1,0>,22
                ACTL/<-0.073,5.5,-0.261>,<0,-1,0>,22.045
                TARG/<0,5.5,0>,<0,-1,0>
                START ANG=0,END ANG=360
                ANGLE VEC=<1,0,0>
                DIRECTION=CCW
                SHOW FEATURE PARAMETERS=NO
                SHOW CONTACT PARAMETERS=YES
                  NUMHITS=72,DEPTH=0,PITCH=0
                  SAMPLE METHOD=SAMPLE_HITS
                  SAMPLE HITS=0,SPACER=0
                  AVOIDANCE MOVE=NO
                  FIND HOLE=DISABLED,ONERROR=NO,READ POS=NO
                SHOW HITS=NO
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                RECALL/ALIGNMENT,INTERNAL,A3
                CLEARP/ZPLUS,93,YMINUS,-147,ON
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
                TIP/T1A0B0, SHANKIJK=0.001, -0.002, 1, ANGLE=-0.02
                WORKPLANE/ZPLUS
                MOVE/CLEARPLANE
    
                WORKPLANE/YPLUS
    A_ABC      =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:START,LIST=YES
                  ALIGNMENT/LEVEL,YPLUS,EB_CNC
                  ALIGNMENT/ROTATE,XPLUS,TO,SENKUNG_74,ABOUT,YPLUS
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,XAXIS,D_164
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,ZAXIS,D_164
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,EB_CNC
                ALIGNMENT/END
    D22        =FEAT/CYLINDER,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
                THEO/<0,-54,0>,<0,1,0>,22,4
                ACTL/<-0.064,-53.682,-0.221>,<-0.0008399,0.9999992,-0.0009762>,22.059,4.013
                CONSTR/CYLINDER,BFRE,D_22_1.5,D_22_3,D_22_5.5,,
                DATDEF/A,FEATURES=D_164,,
                DATDEF/AB,FEATURES=D22,,
                COMMENT/REPT,
                
                SCHNITT M-M
                COMMENT/REPT,
                
                Ø144 + 0.1 mit Rundlauf 0.65 zu AB
    DIM LAGE1= LOCATION OF CYLINDER D_144  UNITS=MM ,$
    GRAPH=OFF  TEXT=OFF  MULT=10.00  OUTPUT=BOTH  HALF ANGLE=NO
    AX    NOMINAL       +TOL       -TOL       MEAS        DEV     OUTTOL
    D      144.000      0.100      0.000    144.069      0.069      0.000 -#
    END OF DIMENSION LAGE1
    FCFRUNDL1  =GEOMETRIC_TOLERANCE/STANDARD=ISO 1101,SHOWEXPANDED=YES,
                FEATURE_MATH=DEFAULT,DATUM_MATH=DEFAULT,
                UNITS=MM,OUTPUT=BOTH,ARROWDENSITY=100,
                SIZE/NOMINAL=144,TOLERANCE SPECIFICATION MODE=NOMINAL_WITH_DEVIATIONS,
                UPPER TOLERANCE=0.1,LOWER TOLERANCE=0,
                  D144:
                    MIN LOCAL SIZE:144.028,
                    MAX LOCAL SIZE:144.308,
                SEGMENT_1,CIRCULAR_RUNOUT,0.65,AB,<dat>,
                TEXT=OFF,CADGRAPH=OFF,REPORTGRAPH=OFF,MULT=10,
                  NOMINAL:
                    HALF ANGLE=0,
                  MEASURED:
                    D144:0.360,
                DATUMS/REPORTDATUMSIZE=OFF,
                  AB(D22):NOM=22,+Tol=0.01,-Tol=-0.01,
                FEATURES/D144,,
    
  • I needed to trim it a little bit. don't be surprised I measured the diameter as a circle to look if it works
  • When I asked if you could share the routine, I meant could you send it to me? I need to see where the hits have been taken and investigate why you are getting the warning. You can either email it to me: Neil.Challinor@hexagon.com or use this link to upload it: https://sendit.hexagon.com/filedrop/~TlEOHL
  • Your cylinder Angle Vector is wrong it should not be the same as the Surface vector try changing it to I or K
  • Beck's The hits are not within the 0.010 tolerance that the geometric tolerance command uses to determine if they are within the same cross-section. There is a range of approximately 0.015 for the depth of the hits in each level.

    This is possibly due to the order of features and alignments. D_144 is measured near the start of your routine using alignment A3. Later on, you create alignment A5 which is levelled to a different plane than A3 and measure circles D_22_1.5, D_22_3 and D_22_5.5 (I strongly advise you change these names - using a . as part of the ID can cause problems). Further down in the routine you create another alignment, A_ABC, and construct a cylinder from circles D_22_1.5, D_22_3 and D_22_5.5 which is then referenced as datum AB, after which, you report the circular runout. I think the cumulative effect of the numerous alignments may be enough to skew the axis of the considered feature cylinder (D_144) in relation to datum AB and induce the 0.015 variation in the depths of hits.

    To work around this problem, you could construct new circles from the hits of each level, relative to the A_ABC alignment that datum AB was created in and then report the circular runout of each of those new circles (see example code below)...

    F1         =GENERIC/PLANE,DEPENDENT,CARTESIAN,$
                NOM/XYZ,<0,-6,0>,$
                MEAS/XYZ,<0,-6,0>,$
                NOM/IJK,<0,1,0>,$
                MEAS/IJK,<0,1,0>
    A7         =ALIGNMENT/START,RECALL:A_ABC,LIST=YES
                  ALIGNMENT/TRANS,YAXIS,F1
                ALIGNMENT/END
    D1         =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
                THEO/<0,0,0>,<0,1,0>,144
                ACTL/<-0.042,0,-0.173>,<0,1,0>,144.028
                CONSTR/CIRCLE,BFRE,2D,D_144.HIT[..17],,
                OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
                FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
                RECALL/ALIGNMENT,INTERNAL,A_ABC
    F2         =GENERIC/PLANE,DEPENDENT,CARTESIAN,$
                NOM/XYZ,<0,-3.5,0>,$
                MEAS/XYZ,<0,-3.5,0>,$
                NOM/IJK,<0,1,0>,$
                MEAS/IJK,<0,1,0>
    D2         =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
                THEO/<0,-3.5,0>,<0,1,0>,144
                ACTL/<-0.039,-3.5,-0.19>,<0,1,0>,144.075
                CONSTR/CIRCLE,BFRE,2D,D_144.HIT[18..34],,
                OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
                FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
                RECALL/ALIGNMENT,INTERNAL,A_ABC
    F3         =GENERIC/PLANE,DEPENDENT,CARTESIAN,$
                NOM/XYZ,<0,-1,0>,$
                MEAS/XYZ,<0,-1,0>,$
                NOM/IJK,<0,1,0>,$
                MEAS/IJK,<0,1,0>
    D3         =FEAT/CIRCLE,CARTESIAN,IN,LEAST_SQR,NO
                THEO/<0,-1,0>,<0,1,0>,144
                ACTL/<-0.037,-1,-0.199>,<0,1,0>,144.112
                CONSTR/CIRCLE,BFRE,2D,D_144.HIT[35..],,
                OUTLIER_REMOVAL/OFF,3
                FILTER/OFF,UPR=0
                RECALL/ALIGNMENT,INTERNAL,A_ABC
    FCFRUNDL1  =GEOMETRIC_TOLERANCE/STANDARD=ISO 1101,SHOWEXPANDED=YES,
                DESCRIPTION=OFF,,
                FEATURE_MATH=DEFAULT,DATUM_MATH=DEFAULT,
                UNITS=MM,OUTPUT=BOTH,ARROWDENSITY=100,
                SIZE/NOMINAL=144,TOLERANCE SPECIFICATION MODE=NOMINAL_WITH_DEVIATIONS,
                UPPER TOLERANCE=0.1,LOWER TOLERANCE=0,
                  D1:
                    MIN LOCAL SIZE:143.831,
                    MAX LOCAL SIZE:144.214,
                  D2:
                    MIN LOCAL SIZE:143.877,
                    MAX LOCAL SIZE:144.249,
                  D3:
                    MIN LOCAL SIZE:143.899,
                    MAX LOCAL SIZE:144.273,
                SEGMENT_1,CIRCULAR_RUNOUT,0.65,AB,<dat>,
                TEXT=OFF,CADGRAPH=OFF,REPORTGRAPH=OFF,MULT=10,
                  NOMINAL:
                    HALF ANGLE=0,
                  MEASURED:
                    D1:0.351,
                    D2:0.352,
                    D3:0.364,
                DATUMS/REPORTDATUMSIZE=OFF,
                  AB(D22):NOM=22,+Tol=0.01,-Tol=0.01,
                FEATURES/D1,D2,D3,,​